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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 1:43:33 GMT 1
So, knowing the facts, you think Perhaps you could enlighten us with your definition of safety, security, prosperity, or "better-off". Surely that's the wrong way round. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively. Brexiteers won the vote. I accept the outcome. I don't want a new referendum. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively also against, eg, mrsonde's semi-semillon rants below/above.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 1:54:50 GMT 1
So, knowing the facts, you think Perhaps you could enlighten us with your definition of safety, security, prosperity, or "better-off". Surely that's the wrong way round. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively. Brexiteers won the vote. I accept the outcome. I don't want a new referendum. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively, eg against mrsonde's semi-semillon rants below/above. You never argued at the time, either, I'm pretty damned sure, and I think we're well beyond the point, then or now, where anyone expects any rational debating points from you in favour of a Remain vote. The same goes for anyone else on your side of the debate, to be fair - because, let's face it, the whole EU project is pretty indefensible, beyond being a free trade area, against which no one has ever argued as far as I can recall (though there's a fair argument to be made, of course - which is why the EU was formed in the first place, to erect trade barriers against the rest of the world.) So - why don't you try arguing pro-actively, instead? What is it that you would like to see in our so-called "deal"?
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 2:03:42 GMT 1
Hey, I keep telling you the same thing.
Why are Brexiteers repeatedly trying to pummel Remainers to the ground?
Hear this, cloth-ears: as I've accepted the referendum result for months if not years, find yourself another punch-bag somewhere else.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 2:24:16 GMT 1
Hey, I keep telling you the same thing. Why are Brexiteers repeatedly trying to pummel Remainers to the ground? A short round of cognitive dissonance, anyone? I remember you'd done us all the great favour of "accepting the referendum result", and we were all dutifully impressed and grateful for your generosity. Unfortunately most of your cohort of voters were not so magnaminous, were they - including Teresa May, Ollie Robbins, and the rest of those who have tried so hard to scupper the result. And unfortunately, this being a Science board, where people try to present rational arguments, you're the only one irrational enough to have voted to Remain, and still occasionally offer abusive comments against anyone who voted to leave. You dug your own grave, as I'm sure the vicar repeatedly reminds you on his summons.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 2:31:48 GMT 1
Hey, I keep telling you the same thing. Why are Brexiteers repeatedly trying to pummel Remainers to the ground? A short round of cognitive dissonance, anyone? I remember you'd done us all the great favour of "accepting the referendum result", and we were all dutifully impressed and grateful for your generosity. Unfortunately most of your cohort of voters were not so magnaminous, were they - including Teresa May, Ollie Robbins, and the rest of those who have tried so hard to scupper the result. And unfortunately, this being a Science board, where people try to present rational arguments, you're the only one irrational enough to have voted to Remain, and still occasionally offer abusive comments against anyone who voted to leave. You dug your own grave, as I'm sure the vicar repeatedly reminds you on his summons. Some might say that's not worthy of you. But I think it is. What battle are you fighting, and against who?
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 2:42:20 GMT 1
Ah, I see you don't understand.
Being a Remainer at the time of the referendum doesn't mean much.
Like being a Leaver, possibly.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 2:46:33 GMT 1
Some might say that's not worthy of you. But I think it is. Yep - I would too. Are you suggesting that there's anything remotely wrong with it? Do tell, becuase for the life of me, I don't see it. Err...the battle to leave the EU, which is the battle for democracy and the return of our national sovereignty. Against the myriad of people trying to frustrate that democratically determined decision, including the PM, her cabinet, most of the ruling party in power, the official opposition, the commentariat, and the millions of self-interested public sector nomenclatura like you. Apart from that, my intelligence is daily offended and outraged by the outright propaganda tricks and manipulative lies spun by those self-interested types, or even by those foolish enough to have been duped into thinking the EU is a good idea. It's not a good idea - it stopped being a good idea decades ago. There is no rational argument that stands examination for remaining. I have asked you for a single one, many times, but you can't imagine just one example. There's an economic argument - a highly complicated one, with many many ifs and buts but on the other hands. None of that argument is weighty enough to stand against the overwhelming mass of the principle that it would be better, in terms of principles that we've fought for for centuries, to retrieve our democratic control.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 2:48:56 GMT 1
Ah, I see you don't understand. Being a Remainer at the time of the referendum doesn't mean much. Like being a Leaver, possibly. Dream on, Herr Quisling. You don't want another referendum precisely because you know what it meant, and Leavers haven't gone away, despite your side's constant almost hysterical attempts to traumatise them.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 3:03:29 GMT 1
That (one or two above) suggests to me you're battling against the wrong person(s).
Even tho I keep telling you I worked in Westminster for only 20 years, and finished doing so over 25 years ago, you cling onto the stereotype to suit your ideological purposes. Stop living in the past.
Your Quisling reference I've just noticed reinforces my point.
It's not the worst you've hurled at people you disagree with, but it's pretty bad, and I think you and anyone who supports you in this should be ashamed.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 3:12:48 GMT 1
Gawd, we've degenerated to synecdoche, both ways.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 3:15:41 GMT 1
That suggests to me you're battling against the wrong person(s). You're telling us now that you wouldn't have preferred to remain in the EU? And I keep telling you - I don't give a fig for your personal circumstances! I josh you a bit, but only because you are such a stereotype! What I'm interested in are the rational arguments pro and con, and because you are such a stereotype, you always turn up in the con column. Have you considered that you're always so utterly hopeless at offering up any rational arguments for your position because you're such a stereotype? You can't actually think for yourself, so you're completely unable to articulate any rational position apart from parrot the stereotypical slogans? Hmmmm? Just a thought. Worth considering. Think on. It's about the fifth or sixth time I've made it! We must persevere, I see. It's pretty bad, because it's true, you twit. No - you're the one who should be ashamed. And anyone else who thinks it's a "good deal" to sign away our rights to make our own laws to unelected unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels and Frankfurt. Just so their grandchildren can travel through Europe without a passport, ffs.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 3:17:09 GMT 1
Gawd, we've degenerated to synecdoche, both ways. Perhaps you don't know who Quisling was?
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 3:22:10 GMT 1
Surely that's the wrong way round. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively. Brexiteers won the vote. I accept the outcome. I don't want a new referendum. Surely, also, I don't have to argue retrospectively, eg against mrsonde's semi-semillon rants below/above. You never argued at the time, either, I'm pretty damned sure, and I think we're well beyond the point, then or now, where anyone expects any rational debating points from you in favour of a Remain vote. The same goes for anyone else on your side of the debate, to be fair - because, let's face it, the whole EU project is pretty indefensible, beyond being a free trade area, against which no one has ever argued as far as I can recall (though there's a fair argument to be made, of course - which is why the EU was formed in the first place, to erect trade barriers against the rest of the world.) So - why don't you try arguing pro-actively, instead? What is it that you would like to see in our so-called "deal"? Fabrication.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 3:22:52 GMT 1
Gawd, we've degenerated to synecdoche, both ways. Perhaps you don't know who Quisling was? Patronising git.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 3:25:46 GMT 1
Perhaps you don't know who Quisling was? Patronising git. What are you objecting to then?
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