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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 3:26:41 GMT 1
You never argued at the time, either, I'm pretty damned sure, and I think we're well beyond the point, then or now, where anyone expects any rational debating points from you in favour of a Remain vote. The same goes for anyone else on your side of the debate, to be fair - because, let's face it, the whole EU project is pretty indefensible, beyond being a free trade area, against which no one has ever argued as far as I can recall (though there's a fair argument to be made, of course - which is why the EU was formed in the first place, to erect trade barriers against the rest of the world.) So - why don't you try arguing pro-actively, instead? What is it that you would like to see in our so-called "deal"? Fabrication. Nope. Completely 100% true.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 5, 2019 3:33:23 GMT 1
That suggests to me you're battling against the wrong person(s). You're telling us now that you wouldn't have preferred to remain in the EU? And I keep telling you - I don't give a fig for your personal circumstances! I josh you a bit, but only because you are such a stereotype! What I'm interested in are the rational arguments pro and con, and because you are such a stereotype, you always turn up in the con column. Have you considered that you're always so utterly hopeless at offering up any rational arguments for your position because you're such a stereotype? You can't actually think for yourself, so you're completely unable to articulate any rational position apart from parrot the stereotypical slogans? Hmmmm? Just a thought. Worth considering. Think on. It's about the fifth or sixth time I've made it! We must persevere, I see. It's pretty bad, because it's true, you twit. No - you're the one who should be ashamed. And anyone else who thinks it's a "good deal" to sign away our rights to make our own laws to unelected unaccountable bureaucrats in Brussels and Frankfurt. Just so their grandchildren can travel through Europe without a passport, ffs. Fabrication and misrepresentation, we can all do all day. But most of us choose not to. Anyway, what would be the point of arguing for or against something that's settled? Plenty of argument went on before the referendum. Just because I wasn't arguing here (amongst half-a-dozen others) doesn't mean I didn't lose it for Remain in my many public speeches.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 3:42:47 GMT 1
Fabrication and misrepresentation, we can all do all day. There is no fabrication or misrepresentation. Kindly suggest what it is you so consider as such. Look, talking of patronising gits, most of us come here to have a civilised rational discussion. We respond to our interlocutor's points, answer his questions and queries, argue our case. You're the only exception here, matey. What's settled? Have I missed something? Reserve me a seat by your fireplace, next time you plan to make a rational point, if you'd be so kind. I'll bring along some rotten tomatoes, just in case. Do you lean against it, with your elbow on the matlepiece, pipe held just so in hand, as you expostulate your points? "Previously..."Xander:Willow:Xander:Mr.Giles:Buffy:Anya:Xander:Oz (using his werewolf powers):
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Post by alancalverd on Jan 5, 2019 12:18:10 GMT 1
If you ladies will excuse me for a moment, I'd like to mention an interesting bit of scaremongering from last night's BBC news (not that anyone could possibly imagine any bias there).
Wholly predictable discussion with a couple of academics concerned that they would lose EU funding. Obviously, but what have they been doing for the last 2 years to fix the problem instead of moaning about it? And how clever of the EU to tax the lumpenproletariat and hand a small proportion of the money (via a Byzantine grant application process) to the most eloquent and camerafriendly stooges they can find (all of whom, of course , are working on a "cure for cancer within the next decade or so" (i.e. long after they have retired)).
But it ended with a rather nervous medical student from Mitteleuropa wondering if her Erasmus grant would survive Brexit. Apparently Manchester University (yes, I've named the culprit) have warned her that it might not, in the full knowledge (for it is up to university bursars to know such things) that Erasmus is not an EU fund.
Not sure which is more worrying - lies or ignorance? Either way, if you are advising your successors on a choice of university, avoid Manchester.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 5, 2019 15:32:05 GMT 1
If you ladies will excuse me for a moment, I'd like to mention an interesting bit of scaremongering from last night's BBC news (not that anyone could possibly imagine any bias there). Huh? They've started running the news again? When did that happen? I thought they were on holidays, until Easter at least. I don't think they could even field a team for University Challenge this year, could they? I was very gratified to see Bristol thrashed in the final - one of the team, Phil Ball, was in my Physics class, and he only answered about two questions - one of them being about Hawkwind, and everyone knows their machine was silver, the other you could tell was a lucky guess about Gainsborough. Calls himself a "Physicist"! Also very pleasing to see "Dame" Fatty Fatty Boom Boom Jenni Murray thoroughly humiliated. Has anyone else in the history of the British Empire ever routinely introduced themselves as "Dame" or even "Sir" whomever? I'd strip her of the title on the grounds of gratuitous overuse. I know this is slightly wandering off your subject, old chap, but it's an important point, that needed to be said. Besides, it's me birthday, and I'm allowed. Guess what I got? A new chair. I'm sitting in it now, after spending an hour putting the effin thing together. It makes you sit up very straight, and wander off the subject, randomly. An office chair. I remember when you used to get things like a Philips Tape Recorder, with attachable microphone, that you could record the Top Twenty off the radio on a Sunday evening, pop pickers. The deluxe Meccano Set! A fully realistic fully operational diecast model of James Bond's Aston Martin DB5, with a fully ejectionable little Korean man, that the dog immediately ate. That orange box that magically plugged into the telly and somehow responded to you batting a ball back and forth - bleep, bleep - making your Gran miss the start of The Sound of Music. A box of Terry's Neapolitan chocolates! Now, a f#*kin office chair, it's come to. I suppose that's what you get for giving her a Dyson for Christmas. What? It was new - you couldn't tell it wasn't, anyway.
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Post by Progenitor A on Jan 5, 2019 17:29:14 GMT 1
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 6, 2019 2:27:01 GMT 1
mrsonde = < ... >
<Look, talking of patronising gits, most of us come here to have a civilised rational discussion. We respond to our interlocutor's points, answer his questions and queries, argue our case. You're the only exception here, matey.>
I think calling someone you don’t know matey isn’t a sign of rationality, but of aggression. Too much of it about. And channelling Buffy is massively rational, of course. Surely the point is that everyone can express themselves as they like, without being bullied.
You can also stop going on about donkeys: they don’t like it. The next time you go to a donkey sanctuary you’re bound to come across one with a black hood over its head. As soon as you get near it it, will let out an unearthly bray, which you’ll never forget.
<What's settled? Have I missed something?>
Obviously you have. What’s settled is that the vote happened and your lot won. And I accepted it. The fact that the govt is even more hopeless than the cause is nothing to do with me.
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Post by aquacultured on Jan 6, 2019 2:30:45 GMT 1
Oh, happy birthday, b*rst*rd.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 6, 2019 7:57:33 GMT 1
mrsonde = < ... > <Look, talking of patronising gits, most of us come here to have a civilised rational discussion. We respond to our interlocutor's points, answer his questions and queries, argue our case. You're the only exception here, matey.> I think calling someone you don’t know matey isn’t a sign of rationality, but of aggression. My edition of Emily Post states unequivocally that it's the de rigeur response when one is addressed as "git". You're lucky it's Buffy and not Full Metal Jacket, numbnuts. I think you'll find if you greet them at the other end for a change, with a friendly word and maybe a carrot, they wouldn't be so anxious whenever they see you. Yeessss...I think we might be dealing with something of a Napolean Complex here. I doubt even the local peasants you "serve" so diligently ever supposed you were actually anything to do with the Government. Look - I'll consider that something might be settled if and when we ever actually leave the EU. At the moment, that looks a very iffy proposition. If May's "deal" goes through, it won't ever happen. If there's a second referendum: it remains to be seen, depending on how it's rigged. That's a news update for you - consultation free of charge, naturally. seeing as it's you, m'lord.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 6, 2019 8:00:58 GMT 1
Oh, happy birthday, b*rst*rd. Ah, that looks like the same rictus grin my new chair evoked. Thankee, it was, as it goes - Jack saved the day.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 6, 2019 8:44:22 GMT 1
Jeremy:
/{- "Aquabollox, Crewkerne Community College" - &%/
Jeremy:
Aquabollox:
Jeremy:
Aquabollox:
Jeremy:
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Post by alancalverd on Jan 6, 2019 10:22:07 GMT 1
We learn a lot from postmortems, whether on donkeys or major disasters. The question of interest here is why anyone other than a business owner, professional criminal or politician, voted to remain. I am intrigued by the answers given by Aqua, which did not seem at first blush to consist with any known facts. As I recall, the original campaign to join the Common Market, and the subsequent pro-EU referendum campaign, were similarly devoid of actual facts but relied on vague notions of "motherhood and apple pie", whilst the economic certainties were all on the other side.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 6, 2019 10:39:04 GMT 1
I am intrigued by the answers given by Aqua, which did not seem at first blush to consist with any known facts. I think it's damned lucky Jeremy didn't truncheon the bounder.
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 7, 2019 7:21:46 GMT 1
M.Barnier:
T.May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
May:
Barnier:
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Post by mrsonde on Jan 8, 2019 13:25:27 GMT 1
The depth of cant, hypocrisy, and downright deception about this infernal withdrawal agreement is quite unbelievable. Varadkar now assures us all that there is no other deal on offer, and that if we reject the 575 page agreement that's it, there's nothing else. But the truth is all the EU needs to do is replace the indefinite trap of the Irish backstop with a paragraph that said something like: "when the UK and RoI have installed electronic means to conduct adequate customs checks across its border, the UK - including N.Ireland - may unilaterally leave the temporary customs arrangement." By all accounts, the "deal" would then pass through the Commons.
That the EU won't make this simple and by any reasonable standard unobjectionable "concession" convinces me that they have every intention of instituting this backstop, on a permanent basis - or, just as good for them, extort us into remaining in the EU by the threat to do so if we try to leave.
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