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Post by abacus9900 on Dec 20, 2010 22:20:28 GMT 1
Marchesarosa, there is inevitably going to be 'ups' and 'downs' in the year to year variation in weather but the thing to look for is a gradual overall trend, not just the odd 'spike' or two in particular years. No, offence, but it appears this is what you are doing wrong in misinterpreting the record. Marchesarosa, what makes you so convinced that the majority of climate change scientists are so misguided? Could it be you that has an agenda here?
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 21, 2010 9:19:39 GMT 1
Australia swaps Summer for Christmas snow.Snow fell in Australia on Monday, as the usual hot and summery December weather was replaced in parts by icy gusts sweeping up from the Southern Ocean, giving the country a taste of a white Christmas. Snow has fallen in parts of east coast states New South Wales and Victoria, leaving ski resorts — some of which are usually snow-free at this time of year — with dumps of up to 10 centimetres (four inches). More here www.physorg.com/news/2010-12-australia-swaps-summer-christmas.html
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 21, 2010 9:23:28 GMT 1
Remember that wise caveat to investors in all kinds of stock, abacus?
"The value of your investments can go down as well as up."
Those warmists who have "bought into" the CAGW bubble and who are disappointed at the wayward ways of nature should take a reality check and bear this in mind.
You have been sold a pup by salesman who have convinced you they can read the "climate futures". Me, I'm happy to jog along from day to day watching mere weather. Try it! Salutary.
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Post by eamonnshute on Dec 21, 2010 10:24:54 GMT 1
Today is the solstice, and yet the North polar ice cap has been shrinking for the last few days, and is now smaller than any recent year. Marchesarosa is not the only one who knows how to pick cherries. www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 21, 2010 10:33:51 GMT 1
My "agenda" is only to understand what is happening to the climate, abacus. Are YOU not reading the increasing amount of research that is pouring cold water on warmist alarmism? If not why not? Why do you ALWAYS look for a "motivation" in boarders who think differently from yourself other than the obvious desire of an reasonably intelligent person to understand?
Are you incapable of grasping the fact that "knowledge" is not monolithic but multi-faceted? That what seems self evident one day can be overturned the next?
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Post by principled on Dec 21, 2010 11:16:20 GMT 1
The lamentable thing about the global warming figure is that governments seem to have used it to design future policy based on steadily rising temperatures. Like many they were told unequivocally what was going to happen by the climatologist, but like many were not told that the science and the models were -in technology terms- as crude as a model T Ford.
Climate change was packaged as gold plated, like those "toxic" AAA rated bonds that our banks devoured with gusto. Because of this our governments decided there was no need for a plan B. No more cold winters, balmy summer days...
That, for me, is the big issue- honesty about the real reliability of the findings and their extrapolation into the future. P
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Post by carnyx on Dec 21, 2010 11:48:52 GMT 1
Eammon,
Just taken a look at the AXA graph to check your claim ... I love the irony, but look next week to see if they revise it.
Our real problem is that the Met office have been sidetracked into the grant-seeking vortex and have taken their eye off the ball. Hitherto their technical progress has been driven by the needs of the RAF, and latterly the Airlines. But as the forecasting is now accurate enough for most aviation purposes, their growth in funding was checked.
So, they latched on to Climate Change as a source of development funding.
Sadly, we now see that aviation and transport needs for accurate snowfall forecasts is increasingly urgent, yet the Met office failed to forecast this need ..... and have been badly caught out.
It is clearly time that this organisation is reformed, and trimmed back to its core function of Weather Forecasting! We could use that Climat Change funding to invest in snow ploughs.
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Post by abacus9900 on Dec 21, 2010 12:19:47 GMT 1
My "agenda" is only to understand what is happening to the climate, abacus. Are YOU not reading the increasing amount of research that is pouring cold water on warmist alarmism? If not why not? Why do you ALWAYS look for a "motivation" in boarders who think differently from yourself other than the obvious interest of an reasonably intelligent person to understand? Are you incapable of grasping the fact that "knowledge" is not monolithic but multi-faceted? That what seems self evident one day can be overturned the next? Yet you seem to seek only to present the facets of it that happen to coincide with your personal views, marchesarosa. Please deal with Eammon's post please, if you dare!
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Post by carnyx on Dec 21, 2010 15:08:47 GMT 1
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Post by abacus9900 on Dec 21, 2010 15:26:09 GMT 1
carnyx, I don't really see the value of examining 'snapshots' of global climate change and extrapolating conclusions therefrom.
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 21, 2010 17:04:09 GMT 1
"Today is the solstice, and yet the North polar ice cap has been shrinking for the last few days, and is now smaller than any recent year. Marchesarosa is not the only one who knows how to pick cherries." I don't suppose you were aware that Antarctic sea ice is at a record high, then, Eamonn? Not the sort of info that warmists bandy about, is it? Not surprising that Eamonn's not the only one in ignorance. NSIDC isn't publicizing the fact. Anthony Watts comments "I find it interesting that the (NSIDC) National Snow & Ice Data Center doesn’t find it newsworthy to mention this record high Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice Extent Anomaly in their December 6th press release: Read more about it here wattsupwiththat.com/2010/12/21/sea-ice-news-32-southern-comfort/#more-29866
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Post by eamonnshute on Dec 21, 2010 17:26:17 GMT 1
I don't suppose you were aware that Antarctic sea ice is at a record high, then, Eamonn? Not the sort of info that warmists bandy about, is it? I was aware of the increase in Antarctic sea ice, and that the (complex) reason is known. However, sea ice is only temporary, unlike the Antarctic land ice, which is shrinking at an accelerating rate. Surely more significant! More cherry picking. I hope you don't think that the extent of Antarctic sea ice is a good proxy for global average temperature!
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Post by marchesarosa on Dec 21, 2010 17:55:23 GMT 1
I try to avoid proxies altogether, Eamonn. I prefer the real thing.
I'm glad the reason for fluctuations in sea ice is "known", Eamonn.
Must be very comforting for you to be "in the know" when the rest of us, including most bona fide climatologists, are struggling with the complexity of it all.
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Post by carnyx on Dec 21, 2010 18:13:50 GMT 1
I reckon that those windmills could come to the rescue.
If their connections were switched over, then could be powered by the grid during off-peak times, and could then blow all that cold air back up to the arctic.
Benefits would include a regrowth of Arctice ice, plus a ready means of balancing the grid to allow power stations to run more efficiently. I suspect that this increase in efficiency would have more economic value than the 'renewable-power' they are supposed to generate.
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Post by eamonnshute on Dec 21, 2010 18:22:08 GMT 1
I try to avoid proxies altogether, Eamonn. I prefer the real thing. Such as actual temperature measurements? Which show that the Southern Ocean is getting WARMER? If you prefer them why do you talk about sea ice and not the actual temperatures?
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