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Post by Progenitor A on Mar 8, 2018 17:36:40 GMT 1
Remember, shortly before the referendum vote Farage predicted it would go 52% to 48% in favour of Remain, which was too narrow a majority to accept, so the fight would go on. So it’s natural that people like Blair and Clegg take the same approach from the other side. As I’ve said, I wouldn’t argue for another referendum. That would only deepen the already gross divisiveness, xenophobia and general unpleasantness engendered by the 2016 one. Would I like the UK to remain in the UK, as the least worst result? Of course I would. But we would’ve lost so much goodwill from most of the 27 that remaining a member would be pretty uncomfortable. Anyway, it’s not an option on offer. What might be on offer further down the line is a massive split in the Tory Party, followed by a General Election, a non-Tory government, and better UK-EU cooperation and problem-solving. I simply do not understand why (a sometime) reasonable person like you wants to remain in the EU. An organisation that has removed two 'democratically elected' governments because they did not like their policies, An organisation that is attempting to enforce reluctant national governments to accept 'refugees' that are patently not refugees at all An organisation that has deliberately driven a weak member state, Greece, into penury An organisation whose currency dogma, the Euro, has created nearly 50% youth unemployment in Italy, Portugal and Spain An organisation whose stated aim is to create an undemocratic super-state the USE An organisation that adheres dogmatically to its 'rules' when it suits them, and unceremoniously ditches its rule when it suits them An organisation that bullies the weak (e.g. Greece) and meekly submits to the strong (e.g. Germany) an organisation whose agricultural policies militate against the poorest countries in the world An organisation that accretes power both brazenly and by stealth An organisation that is riven by corruption and financial mismanagement And for all this you are prepared to pay £113 Billion a year to remain a member? Madness!
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Post by aquacultured on Mar 9, 2018 1:20:45 GMT 1
I've always acknowledged the EU isn't great.
Grew too big, too quick, without the right safeguards. Greece was a basket case, Portugal and Spain similar. I wish it hadn't been so.
In 1975 I voted OUT, as it seemed to be a rich man's club. Slowly grew to understand ordinary people were being sidelined.
As they are now.
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Post by alancalverd on Mar 9, 2018 2:47:23 GMT 1
Remember, shortly before the referendum vote Farage predicted it would go 52% to 48% in favour of Remain, which was too narrow a majority to accept, so the fight would go on. So it’s natural that people like Blair and Clegg take the same approach from the other side. Farage already had his snout in the Golden Trough as an MEP, so the referendum was a win-win option for him. Blair and Clegg will do anything to ingratiate themselves to the EU in the hope of getting their snouts in the trough too. I recall Ted Heath received £20,000 for selling the UK to the EEC. Wonder what price B and C are asking?
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 14, 2018 17:15:22 GMT 1
Would I like the UK to remain in the UK, as the least worst result? Of course I would. But we would’ve lost so much goodwill from most of the 27 that remaining a member would be pretty uncomfortable. Kindly explain why on earth that should be the case. It is the case - but what's your explanation for it? From 27 "members" that are supposedly democracies? More to the point, it's not an option that your side could possibly win. If you could, you'd all be campaigning for it with all your self-righteous might - which, as you say, is fair enough. A dozen at most racalcitrant bad losers is hardly "massive". It only half appears so because it's a hung parliament, and thus such an insignifant splinter group might just precipitate an election. If you believe Corbyn's Labour has a snowball's chance of winning it, I have to say I admire your optimism, however detached from reality. By all historical precedence, to win an election at this stage of the parliamentary cycle Labour should be about 20 points ahead in the polls.
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 14, 2018 17:23:36 GMT 1
I've always acknowledged the EU isn't great. Grew too big, too quick, without the right safeguards. Greece was a basket case, Portugal and Spain similar. Nonsense. They were all fine, in their laid-back Mediterranean manner. So was Italy. So was Ireland. Huh? I do like contrarians, but this is more like a Theatre of the Absurd performance.
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Post by aquacultured on Mar 15, 2018 0:41:51 GMT 1
Would I like the UK to remain in the UK, as the least worst result? Of course I would. But we would’ve lost so much goodwill from most of the 27 that remaining a member would be pretty uncomfortable. Kindly explain why on earth that should be the case. It is the case - but what's your explanation for it? From 27 "members" that are supposedly democracies? More to the point, it's not an option that your side could possibly win. If you could, you'd all be campaigning for it with all your self-righteous might - which, as you say, is fair enough. A dozen at most racalcitrant bad losers is hardly "massive". It only half appears so because it's a hung parliament, and thus such an insignifant splinter group might just precipitate an election. If you believe Corbyn's Labour has a snowball's chance of winning it, I have to say I admire your optimism, however detached from reality. By all historical precedence, to win an election at this stage of the parliamentary cycle Labour should be about 20 points ahead in the polls. I do bet the Tories will have a massive (ie, significant) rift, soon. And all will come to the balance intended.
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Post by alancalverd on Mar 15, 2018 8:10:19 GMT 1
[quote source="/post/31508/thread" author=" aquacultured" By all historical precedence, to win an election at this stage of the parliamentary cycle Labour should be about 20 points ahead in the polls. According to the most recent precedent, a 20 point lead guarantees nothing. You have to be prepared to lick the disgusting arse of the murdering DUP, at the taxpayer's expense, to form a government.
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Post by aquacultured on Mar 15, 2018 13:57:22 GMT 1
I've always acknowledged the EU isn't great. Grew too big, too quick, without the right safeguards. Greece was a basket case, Portugal and Spain similar. Nonsense. They were all fine, in their laid-back Mediterranean manner. So was Italy. So was Ireland. Huh? I do like contrarians, but this is more like a Theatre of the Absurd performance. Embrace complexity, Negative Capability, even. Go on, try it.
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 18, 2018 19:26:08 GMT 1
Huh? I do like contrarians, but this is more like a Theatre of the Absurd performance. Embrace complexity, Negative Capability, even. Go on, try it. Rather than your usual efforts to pose as some sort of Jedi master cum Village Idiot, do you want to try instead giving some sort of comprehensible rational account for your bizarre statements?
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 18, 2018 19:39:58 GMT 1
[quote source="/post/31508/thread" author=" aquacultured" By all historical precedence, to win an election at this stage of the parliamentary cycle Labour should be about 20 points ahead in the polls. According to the most recent precedent, a 20 point lead guarantees nothing. Who had a 20-pt lead by the most recent predecent? Not May, nor Hillary. But you're strictly correct - it's not a guarantee. A very good guide though. Labour have to surge ahead in the polls at least into the teens if they have any serious chance of winning, against an incumbent, Tory, government. That's just the way the electorate is - or always has been, to be sure. If Corbyn can actually get the young student corpus off their arses to vote next time, there's a slim chance at a shock result - but as analysis has shown, that's not what happened at the last election. What happened was that the Tory vote abstained, in a sort of protest at May's incompetence, the dementia tax, and, who knows, maybe simple apathy given what looked like the inevitable landslide. That certainly won't happen again. Huh? Who have they "murdered", ffs?
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Post by aquacultured on Mar 19, 2018 0:34:42 GMT 1
Embrace complexity, Negative Capability, even. Go on, try it. Rather than your usual efforts to pose as some sort of Jedi master cum Village Idiot, do you want to try instead giving some sort of comprehensible rational account for your bizarre statements? Maybe you should embrace what you fear. It's quite easy, if you try. Great journey.
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 19, 2018 6:26:05 GMT 1
Rather than your usual efforts to pose as some sort of Jedi master cum Village Idiot, do you want to try instead giving some sort of comprehensible rational account for your bizarre statements? Maybe you should embrace what you fear. It's quite easy, if you try. Great journey. Yet more pretentious meaningless gobbledygook. Have you ever considered becoming a management consultant?
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Post by aquacultured on Mar 20, 2018 0:53:59 GMT 1
Have you ever stopped to think for a moment before rubbishing what your interlocutors say?
I'm always listening to village idiots. You should try it. (Leaving me aside, of course.)
One's certainties tend to drop away; but I doubt it in your juggernauting case.
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 21, 2018 16:55:05 GMT 1
Have you ever stopped to think for a moment before rubbishing what your interlocutors say? Yes, always. In this case, I've lost count of the times I've politely asked Aqua to please explain what on earth he is saying, because what he has actually said on the face of it makes no sense whatsoever. He never, ever responds - except with more sarcastic garbage like the above little gnomic insult. Maybe you can explain what the hell he is trying to say, if it's so comprehensible to you? Personally - I may be wrong, in which case it'd be nice to have it pointed out why for once - I think it's the same standard of rubbish you're fond of trotting out. I have no "certainties", my Marxist-Leninist guru. None that would make me feel entitled to confiscate everyone's property and either slaughter or put to work in forced labour for the rest of their lives anyone who had the effrontery to disagree with me, anyway.
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Post by mrsonde on Mar 21, 2018 17:01:33 GMT 1
I'm always listening to village idiots. You should try it. (Leaving me aside, of course.) Presumably that's how you can broadcast such pearls of wisdom as the DUP go around murdering people, or Heath received a bribe for taking us into the EEC, or any of the other ridiculous pronouncements you make about politics or history? You're just a gullible sap?
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