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Post by Progenitor A on Nov 20, 2018 8:32:33 GMT 1
I am wondering how Raab could not know the content of the document He did not know because he was not told, he was not told because Secret negotiations were taking place between Robbins and the EU - or if he didn't, why didn't he resign on the day of the cabinet meeting (I assume he had to be present there?) when the document was presented he told the Chief Whip that he would be resigning at the end of that Mushroom Cabinet meeting I can't make sense of it. I consider that Nick has explained what happened accurately
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 20, 2018 14:04:56 GMT 1
The pundits predicted last year that she would be gone that September, but the Maybot has continued. I am wondering how Raab could not know the content of the document - or if he didn't, why didn't he resign on the day of the cabinet meeting (I assume he had to be present there?) when the document was presented. Maybe HE is playing some kind of self-serving game. I can't make sense of it. He's simply telling the truth, as Davis did before him. He'd never seen it before, and had nothing to do with it. It was the result - in what must have been well over a year at least in the making - of Robbins and a secret Treasury team, negotiating in camera with Barnier, during which May was spinning a set of policy red lines in direct contradiction to what she was secretly agreeing. Raab and Davis couldn't possibly get away with lying about this - their consultations on both "draft agreements" would have been fully and accurately minuted, by both the Cabinet Office and their own department, and May could simply wave the minutes in their red faces, sending them into deserved career oblivion.
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 20, 2018 14:09:50 GMT 1
Yes, fascinating, they're all playing a game, until such time as the BoJot swoops. (But he seems to be a busted flush.) Like Davis, Raab realised this was an impossible task, so resigned, and blamed it on others. Yes, the EU stitched us up, not wilfully, far from it; but because of institutional antipathy to treachery and duplicity. As usual, you make no sense whatsoever. They must have special training seminars in the Civil Service on how to speak such gobbledygook, and pretend with a straight face that black is white.
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Post by Progenitor A on Nov 20, 2018 14:49:01 GMT 1
Yes, fascinating, they're all playing a game, until such time as the BoJot swoops. (But he seems to be a busted flush.) Like Davis, Raab realised this was an impossible task, so resigned, and blamed it on others. Yes, the EU stitched us up, not wilfully, far from it; but because of institutional antipathy to treachery and duplicity. As usual, you make no sense whatsoever. They must have special training seminars in the Civil Service on how to speak such gobbledygook, and pretend with a straight face that black is white. I agree - Aqua is making no sense to me at all
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 20, 2018 18:03:13 GMT 1
Oh, how exquisite! Spain, that bastion of Democracy and upholder of the rights of self-determination, has declared that it will veto this "agreement" in any case, unless we grant them a wholly new right to determine the status of Gibraltar (even though Gibraltar isn't even in the Customs Union, and so has no access to the Single Market, except through the back door of the UK!) Wonderful.
Or maybe May will sell out Gibraltar, and centuries of cast-iron British guarantees, too. Who knows what perfidy she's capable of now.
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Post by aquacultured on Nov 21, 2018 0:46:28 GMT 1
Yes, fascinating, they're all playing a game, until such time as the BoJot swoops. (But he seems to be a busted flush.) Like Davis, Raab realised this was an impossible task, so resigned, and blamed it on others. Yes, the EU stitched us up, not wilfully, far from it; but because of institutional antipathy to treachery and duplicity. As usual, you make no sense whatsoever. They must have special training seminars in the Civil Service on how to speak such gobbledygook, and pretend with a straight face that black is white. Stereotypes again, is it? What a bore. Up with which I will no longer put. Without a brandy. Look, I've spent twice as much time out of the CS than in it. What is it with you and your animosity? You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time expressing contempt for the way other people express themselves. I'm not aware the CS trained me to speak or write in a particular way. And since I left them, and well before I joined them, I've supported myself (and others) by writing. So why not stop blaming the CS for everything, including my modes of expression?
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 21, 2018 6:37:10 GMT 1
As usual, you make no sense whatsoever. They must have special training seminars in the Civil Service on how to speak such gobbledygook, and pretend with a straight face that black is white. Stereotypes again, is it? What a bore. Up with which I will no longer put. Without a brandy. Look, I've spent twice as much time out of the CS than in it. What is it with you and your animosity? You seem to spend an inordinate amount of time expressing contempt for the way other people express themselves. I'm not aware the CS trained me to speak or write in a particular way. And since I left them, and well before I joined them, I've supported myself (and others) by writing. So why not stop blaming the CS for everything, including my modes of expression? Jeezuz wept! What a tear-jerker, it's heartbreaking. Well, you've caught me in a maudlin mood this morning, so I'll tiptoe round your feelings, like someone who gives a damn. I run out of patience with you, of repetitively having to waste my time asking you what on earth you might mean by your false or at best opaque assertions from on high, only to be ignored or insulted in return. And here's my sincere advice: if you don’t wish to be stereotyped as a typically pompous dissembling Sir Humphrey, don’t constantly write like one. Just you. Because you don’t. In a way, you should take it as a compliment really. If I didn't have an inkling that you are actually able to express what you think - and even that you do think now and again, in fact - I wouldn't even bother trying to engage with you, to coax you out, as though you might have something to say and were worth talking to - see? Think of me like the kind old blind woodsman in Frankenstein, and you're like the monster, sharing my soup. You can do more than groan and mumble now, come on. Frennnd, yes, frennnnd. Hellsakes, Bob Cratchit! If I’d known things were so rough for you and yours I’d buy Hallmark cards more often, and get my Xmas crackers in Poundland. And God bless liddle Tiny Tim, ho ho ho! Bastards! There goes my mood. Sigh. Let’s try once again then: see if you deign to lower yourself to the occasion for once. Now, what on earth can you mean, the EU has antipathy to our - I presume you mean our - "duplicity" and "treachery"? Are you still smoking the crack, man? You know you get upset and start moaning and feeling sorry for yourself when you try smoking, you great big silly monster you.
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Post by marchesarosa on Nov 21, 2018 11:35:15 GMT 1
First, the very same interests that tried to stop the Leave movement with their Project Fear BEFORE the Referendum vote (including the arch-Quisling Governor of the Bank of England) are now trying to frighten us into accepting the "Withdrawal Deal". Secondly, the 80% of MPs (who voted Remain) have been entrusted with putting into effect the wishes of the Referendum Leave majority. Have you ever heard any of the media pundits or the chattering classes mention this glaring arithmetical anomaly and conflict of interest?
These two facts are all you need to now about this Grand Deception and attempted theft of the Referendum decision.
I just hope it is not too late to woo the public about the benefits of leaving on WTO rules. There may be a little short-term disruption and everyone has some anxiety about the unknown, that's normal. But so what! That is no reason for always keeping "a-hold of Nurse For fear of finding something worse". The British are made of sterner stuff and ours is, anyway, one of the biggest economies in the world. Letting the Republic's tail wag the UK dog is just plain scandalous! The pusillanimity of the the remainers/appeasers should turn our stomachs. Yes, they are all Quislings, fearing for the butter on their bread and always assuming Big Brother Knows Best.
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Post by marchesarosa on Nov 21, 2018 13:00:26 GMT 1
I just did a search for Jean and found this
Liverpool Renaissance Singers 13 November at 04:04 ·
For those who fondly remember Jean Hill, we are sad to say that she has passed away and her funeral is on 23rd Nov at 11.30 am It's St Agnes Church, 1 Buckingham Avenue, L 17 3BA. Liverpool.
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 21, 2018 14:33:55 GMT 1
I just did a search for Jean and found this Liverpool Renaissance Singers 13 November at 04:04 · For those who fondly remember Jean Hill, we are sad to say that she has passed away and her funeral is on 23rd Nov at 11.30 am It's St Agnes Church, 1 Buckingham Avenue, L 17 3BA. Liverpool. Ah, that might explain my maudlin mood. Memento mori.
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 21, 2018 14:43:04 GMT 1
First, the very same interests that tried to stop the Leave movement with their Project Fear BEFORE the Referendum vote (including the arch-Quisling Governor of the Bank of England) are now trying to frighten us into accepting the "Withdrawal Deal". Secondly, the 80% of MPs (who voted Remain) have been entrusted with putting into effect the wishes of the Referendum Leave majority. Have you ever heard any of the media pundits or the chattering classes mention this glaring arithmetical anomaly and conflict of interest? These two facts are all you need to now about this Grand Deception and attempted theft of the Referendum decision. Correctamundo. Correctamundo. There's a problem - people who can persuasively put forward the virtually indisputable benefits of leaving on WTO rules - the No Deal option, which was always going to be the only way to honour the Referendum vote - are hardly ever allowed on the mainstream media to do so. At best they get a couple of hurried minutes, to barracking by jeers and lies, as with Redwood on Any Questions last week. In contrast, we're constantly being bombarded by a highly organised and professional propaganda campaign, especially from the BBC, Sky, and C4. Sky is by far the worse in this regard - its recent purchase by yet another multinational conglomerate, no doubt. I might summarise the bullet points later, as part of my bit - I haven't really bothered too much before, seeing as the decision is about far more important matters than economics, but this vital point seems to have been totally lost since the vote (I don't think Remainers understand it at all, or like Aqua simply don't care. Every one of them would have negotiated peace terms with Hitler in 1940, on the grounds otherwise it would be disruptive and damaging to our economy and if we would only compromise Herr Hitler would be reasonable to us too.
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Post by marchesarosa on Nov 21, 2018 14:54:27 GMT 1
Thanks, for that, Mr Sonde.
Yes, you have to be a bit bloody-minded, like Churchill, to be willing to go it alone.
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Post by alancalverd on Nov 21, 2018 15:57:18 GMT 1
Here's my twopennorth, now that the electric internet thingy has been restored to this benighted outpost.
Teresa May inherited what she considered a poisoned chalice. Being constitutionally bound to leave the EU, but personally in favor of remaining, she decided. like her predecessors, to negotiate a surrender rather than declare independence. Being less stupid than Cameron, she has negotiated a "deal" that would guarantee the UK effectively remaining in the EU for at least the remainder of her term of office, with the only other options even less likely to command a parliamentary majority.
A general election won't help. Komrade Corbyn cannot command a "leave" majority in his parliamentary party and the SNP won't bail him out. But the UK having pulled the Article 50 trigger, the EU will insist on severe punishment pour encourager les autres.
Unless the Daily Mail comes to the aid of "no deal", our beloved leader has succeeded by half-arsed negotiation to do what everyone else thought was either unnecessary or undesirable. The question was "leave or stay" and the outcome will be "suffer the worst of both".
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 21, 2018 16:58:42 GMT 1
Thanks, for that, Mr Sonde. Yes, you have to be a bit bloody-minded, like Churchill, to be willing to go it alone. You have to have a clear vision of and appropriately care about what's important - to this country, to the values that have forged it, and we have all too readily allowed to come under terminal threat. Then going it alone isn't really a choice - it's the only option if we want to survive.
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Post by mrsonde on Nov 21, 2018 17:09:23 GMT 1
Here's my twopennorth, now that the electric internet thingy has been restored to this benighted outpost. You haven't left Scotland yet? No wonder you're a revolutionary. She didn't - she grasped it with open eyes and both hands, voluntarily, against opposition who saw it in quite different terms. And she managed to do so by promising her electorate that "Brexit means Brexit" and "No Deal is better than a Bad Deal" and all sorts of other similar nostrums she has since deliberately betrayed. Under her deal, we remain in the EU for as long as they choose us to. What matters to them is we remain trapped in a Customs Union, so they retain free access to our market (£150 billion surplus) and we're hobbled in terms of trade deals, labour regulations, state aid provision, and above all tax rates, so that we can;t out-compete them. They've got us, for ever, under this proposal, thanks to this Irish border red herring. I strongly disagree. It won't be with May as leader - she couldn't win another contest, and, barring more colossal bribes to the DUP, or Labour betrays every principle it still has left, there must be one, after she loses the vote in December. Realistically, that'll come down to Boris versus Rudd (whatever Gove had over Boris - his infidelity, it looks likely - is now a busted flush.) I think Boris can win - the pressure from the membership will be enormous - becuase Rudd has no alternative but more of the same to offer. I'm wholly confident Boris as PM would win a general election - I think Corbyn would be trounced, especially in the North. Corbyn doesn't want to leave in any case - at least, more accurately. his Party doesn't, and it seems his hands are tied, by his own manoeuvrings. Yet more delicious irony on irony. More bitter irony! Who would have thought the loss of Dacre off all people could have been felt so keenly? Not if we really leave. It's not over yet, not by a long shot. More irony - who would have thought the hopes of democracy and the future of our sovereignty and freedom would depend on the DUP and SNP of all people?
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