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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 14:07:34 GMT 1
Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 10, 2011 14:07:34 GMT 1
Not all of them , just the stupid ones!
ANd if you think that carnyx has ANY analytical skill, then you're even more of an idiot. Have you actually READ any of his posts............
As regards my supposed stupidity, we AREN'T talking about sticking your head inside a balloon filled with helium, just inhaling a little. And most people, I think, without specific medical training, would think that you might breathe the helium, possibly pass out, but then come round again as soon as you start breathing normally. Because after all, even if you pass out, your head is out there in the fresh air................
Except seems you don't, because the breathing reflex is triggered not by loss of oxygen, but by excess cardon dioxide.
So, seems dear Carnyx is wrong again! Not:
Directly, but lack of oxygen equals passing out, and lack of excess carbon dioxide means the breathing reflex isn't triggered, THEN lack of oxygen polishes you off.
Seems that helium inhalation, has become the suicide method of choice for some:
From the paper:
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 14:15:56 GMT 1
Post by jean on Feb 10, 2011 14:15:56 GMT 1
I'd just posted a reply to carnyx's latest, which STA has replied to much more fully - but I think I'll leave it, as it's a very good illustration of how carnyx's analytical skills don't stretch as far as properly reading the post he's replying to, so anxious is he to find something to ridicule.
STA did not say that she had not realised that helium inhalation caused death. Of course not.
She said she had not realised how easily this happened, even when quite a small amount of helium is involved. That's not quite the same thing, is it?
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 14:28:51 GMT 1
Post by carnyx on Feb 10, 2011 14:28:51 GMT 1
Bullshit.
And now, caught out in a question of general ignorance, we see a bit of frantic googling .. and voilá! The regurgitation of "revealed truth"
Lack of Oxygen = Death is pretty basic; but obviously you did not and never did have ANY curiosity of how this might happen, and why.
Youl clearly had no prior idea of how breathing actually works .. and e.g. what causes panic attacks? Why the first-aid treatment is to breathe into a paper bag? Ever heard of hypoxia and anoxia, and what they were about? All those deaths caused by people going into e.g. ship's holds? And, what glue-sniffing is REALLY about?
Gercha, STA .. (and your mate Jean ..who can't actually read too well these days )
e.g. a quote from your quote;
As will any other gas .....
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 14:31:26 GMT 1
Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 10, 2011 14:31:26 GMT 1
Stick yer 'ead in a sealed bag, most of us have no problem seeing that won't be a good thing! but just take a smallish sip of helium from a tube? I'm sure MOST people would think -- pass out from lack of oxygen maybe, but surely you'll start breathing again? After all, you can be asleep and breath perfectly well!
Also, looking on the internet, there seems to be some confusion with what happens when you breath dense gases, seems to be some idea they sit at the bottom of your lungs, or some such.
Other effect seem to come into play, such as helium displacing oxygen from the bloodstream -- but other stuff I have read still seems to claim inhaling helium from a party balloon won't kill you -- except that seem to be exactly what happened to that girl in the news story, because as far as I can see, there is no way you could get your head into one of those helium balloons!
Hence, as far as I can see, literature I have found seems to support the clears out both oxygen and CO2, and hence breathing reflex not triggered after you pass out.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 14:55:53 GMT 1
Post by helen on Feb 10, 2011 14:55:53 GMT 1
Carbon monoxide is really toxic, it's one of the larger constituents of tobacco smoke. Sulphur dioxide or hydrogen sulphide; would I let my students breath in these horrible gasses? No. You must think I'm a terrible person or know nothing of dealing with kids and of chemistry but supervised: Nitrous oxide, sulphur hexaflouride and helium are great fun! Gets kid's into science, not keen on killing them....I'd probably get sacked for that.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:02:17 GMT 1
Post by helen on Feb 10, 2011 15:02:17 GMT 1
What's this got to do with waves? Is no one interested in waves?
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:07:33 GMT 1
Post by jonjel on Feb 10, 2011 15:07:33 GMT 1
I thought this thread was about waves, but seems to have turned into gaseous exchange. No matter, I will plough on.
A physicist friend of mine was sitting beside a swimming pool some years back and was puzzled by the pattern the sun made on the bottom of the pool as refracted by the wavelets on the surface. He went back to his room and did a few calculations, and when he returned home he got the glass shop to make some glass waves out of glass with different refractive indices so he could carry out some experiments.
Boring but for one fact. When he first noticed the pattern he was sitting by a pool on his honeymoon! As far as I know he is still married.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:11:42 GMT 1
Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 15:11:42 GMT 1
What's this got to do with waves? Is no one interested in waves? I think that this thread is about making waves.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:15:37 GMT 1
Post by helen on Feb 10, 2011 15:15:37 GMT 1
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:16:02 GMT 1
Post by jonjel on Feb 10, 2011 15:16:02 GMT 1
Yes Helen, I am interested in waves, not the glass ones. A true story.
About 20 years ago I was stood looking at the sea from the top of a beach just to the west of Mumbles. It was a calm clear day and there were quite a few people on the beach lounging around or sitting on chairs. The sea was very calm with just a few gentle waves on an incoming tide.
Out of no-where came a wave which without any exaggeration was 6-10' high and broke right up the beach. People rushed up the beach to get away, then rushed back down again to retrieve their property and the odd granny. It was quite funny at the time, but could have been pretty serious.
I would love to know what caused that.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:18:12 GMT 1
Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 15:18:12 GMT 1
I thought this thread was about waves, but seems to have turned into gaseous exchange. No matter, I will plough on. A physicist friend of mine was sitting beside a swimming pool some years back and was puzzled by the pattern the sun made on the bottom of the pool as refracted by the wavelets on the surface. He went back to his room and did a few calculations, and when he returned home he got the glass shop to make some glass waves out of glass with different refractive indices so he could carry out some experiments. Boring but for one fact. When he first noticed the pattern he was sitting by a pool on his honeymoon! As far as I know he is still married. I was very concerned with waves in my job. Fast fading of waves with a Rayleigh distribution was a particular problem causing fade depths of 30dB or more and the optimium solutions were found to be frequency hopping combined with space diversity and the use of correlators in the receivers
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:26:00 GMT 1
Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 10, 2011 15:26:00 GMT 1
Well, he wasn't very observant then, because you can see these sort of weird effects even on your cup of coffee -- although that is caused by reflection from the inside of the cup surface, rather than refraction.
In a pool, it's just the concave and convex parts of the water surface acting like converging or diverging lenses.
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:32:29 GMT 1
Post by carnyx on Feb 10, 2011 15:32:29 GMT 1
Jonjel,
Did it break successively anong the beach at an angle, or was it all full-on, like a tidal wave?
One possible cause woud be the bow wave from a large, fast ship. In calm conditions they travel a long way, and the ship may have long disappeared from view, if it ever was visible.
I have to say that travelling down Loch Ness in a dead calm, way ahead I saw such a bow wave apparently on its own. It was slow and jet black, and from my angle it looked just like Nessie with her humps! No strong drink has been taken, I swear!
( BTW I didn't watch the prog .. did they cover solitons?)
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:42:05 GMT 1
Post by helen on Feb 10, 2011 15:42:05 GMT 1
'he returned home he got the glass shop to make some glass waves out of glass with different refractive indices so he could carry out some experiments.' How is this done other than with bit's of different glass collected together? Glass is an amorphous non-crystaline, meta-liquid mass, sorry I'm not big on glass science (other than Praseodymium glasses) shine some light!
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Waves
Feb 10, 2011 15:50:02 GMT 1
Post by jonjel on Feb 10, 2011 15:50:02 GMT 1
Carnyx
I am absolutely certain it was not a bow wave. I have been caught in those from fast large naval ships in the western approaches and they are far smaller than this one was. No sign of shipping and unless in some way the bow wave was magnified by the sea bed I don't see how that was possible. Add to that it seemed (from talking to the people around) it was a one off phenomenon. If it was shipping it would I think have been a more regular occurrence.
As far as I recall it was pretty well straight on to the beach.
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