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Post by marchesarosa on May 1, 2011 8:46:53 GMT 1
Three Cheers for New Tech nofrakkingconsensus.com/2011/04/30/three-cheers-for-new-tech/Have just ordered a couple of these from Amazon. They will do to illuminate my dark fusebox cupboard instead of the usual candle - we're very old fashioned in Leeds. -------- I want to install downlighters in a new, rather dim (tree-shaded, north-facing and flanked by high exterior wall) kitchen I am creating. I know NOTHING about lighting except that I don't like the nasty type of fluorescent light that drains everything of its natural colour. Can anyone advise what I should use to get a nice "cheerful" light that mimics natural daylight as far as possible? I imagine that I will need some artificial light to create a nice ambience even in the daytime. My preference is for incandescent light but since this is being phased out I guess I shall have to find a near substitute if possible. Your help would be really useful, please.
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Post by mak2 on May 1, 2011 20:07:57 GMT 1
The spectral quality of light from both white LEDs and fluorescent lights depends on the phosphors that they use. Cheap lamps tend to produce a rather unpleasant blueish light but the ones with a better mixture of phosphors can give a pleasant warmish white colour. If you want to use low voltage lighting, LEDs are probably better. Whichever type you choose, try to see them illuminated before you buy. So that you can see what kind of light they produce.
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Post by StuartG on May 1, 2011 20:34:32 GMT 1
MM, You really need to go to some dealers [Screwfix/B&Q/Wickes etc] to see what can be had. At the moment [judging by the 'net] there are low stocks [downlighters] at the moment, figures really, as the good weather has arrived and also many are improving rather than buying their property. The high exterior wall can be painted white as it faces South [from what You say] and/or plastic mirroring can be bought if the wall has a part facing a garden/open space, and can be angled to give a view from the kitchen window whilst at the sink [good for security-see who's coming]. It also has the benefit of discouraging the growth of the green mould/verdigris/moss that always forms with North-facing walls, the reflected day/sunlight stops this. This will work well if, say, the kitchen is at one corner of the property, the mirror placed with its centre in line with the corner of the house, funny idea? At first thought but when considering the alternative no contest. I've done it at my workshop and because the property is on a hill, in the winter the Sun just peeks over [when it's out] the roof apex for hour or so just enough to keep the dark and dankness away and even the extra daylight helps. Another idea is the use of a mirror-duct system. Simply put a tube with its inside mirrored, its inlet taken to a sunny, external area, and its outlet in the ceiling of the room. They do work very well, [they are used at the care home] and make a dark windowless room appear to have almost normal daylight. Here's a lead to a .pdf on the subject... www.jase-w.eccj.or.jp/technologies/pdf/office/O-3.pdfYou really do need to look around the shops first before ordering on the 'net. Cheers, StuartG
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Post by marchesarosa on May 1, 2011 23:03:18 GMT 1
Thanks for your advice, mak and stu.
I have considered rendering the upper part of the projecting 2.5 storey wall (which does not, alas face south but north, Stu) and painting it white because it will probably reflect a bit of extra light down through the velux roof lights in the garden room which will be located between the kitchen and the outside.
Your idea of a periscope mirror tube may have to be considered, too, if I cannot get as much the light I like. However, I think the right colour of light bulbs will do the trick supplementing the natural light
The kitchen itself, which was once the dining room and quite large (12.5ft x 15ft) will have no external windows of its own. It will take borrowed light via wide and high archways from the south-west facing sitting room on one side and the north-east facing garden room on the other. I will certainly have to have a look at different types of lightbulbs working before making a decision because this ground floor apartment has less light than I am accustomed to in my present top floor eyrie which is flooded with light from all directions. I'll ask my electrician where I can see some.
Thanks again for the suggestions.
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Post by marchesarosa on May 5, 2011 13:01:20 GMT 1
Have just received two of these from Amazon. www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001B4PINI/ref=oss_product Only £2.45 ea, inc postage AND batteries! Handy little things. I'm very pleased. I saw them praised on Donna Laframboise's blog NoFrakkingConsensus nofrakkingconsensus.com/Mak2 and Stu I found the local Screwfix the other day. It's right nextdoor to a big lighting emporium so I'll be visiting them soon. thanks again for the tips.
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Post by marchesarosa on May 16, 2011 10:39:35 GMT 1
ESLs coming soonPosted on May 16, 2011 by Anthony Watts This product just got UL approval, expect it to show up for retail sales soon. What’s an ESL? Think of it as an unfocused Cathode Ray Tube or CRT. The definition at Wikipedia is: Electron Stimulated Luminescence (ESL) is light produced by accelerated electrons hitting a phosphor (fluorescent) surface in a process known as cathodoluminescence.The light generation process is similar to a cathode ray tube (CRT) but lacks magnetic or electrostatic deflection.
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Post by mak2 on May 16, 2011 14:23:08 GMT 1
Not sure that there is anything wrong with the using old filament bulbs. What the green lobby don't tell you, is that the excess energy appears as heat and helps keep your home warm. In a cool climate like the UKs, the energy saving from using other types of lighting is much less than is claimed.
As the politicians are trying to dictate what kind of light bulbs we use, I suppose ESL lamps are a good thing. At least we will have a some choice.
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Post by StuartG on May 16, 2011 15:03:17 GMT 1
Mak, It's back to the vested interests again. When filament bulbs were first made, they strove to make them last longer. They suceeded to a greater extent, then some one said 'don't make them last as long, we'll sell more'. A filament bulb will give a pleasing [to humans] light, they class the new 'green' lights by output compared to input, trouble is not all 'light' is particularly useful for seeing. Men, in particular, do not have good 'reception' of light in the blue part of the spectrum, and what do You notice about new 'LED' lights? [great for bumble bees]. Lots of cats can see in the infra-red end of the spectrum, so they can be 'blinded' by infra-red lights the visible light of which can be quite dim to us. Cheers, StuartG
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Post by worldtravel45 on Jul 12, 2011 20:30:53 GMT 1
To everyone that is concerned about how bright LED bulbs are, they should try out a line of LED bulbs called Miracle Bulbs. I had the same problem with the lights not being as bright as I needed. From what I can understand, Miracle uses the latest in lighting technology. I ordered my Miracle Bulbs from a site called GoGreenLEDBulbs. There may be other locations, but the link is gogreenledbulbs.com/ . For everyone who is discussing how they work, I can't explain that. But I can tell you they've cut back on my electricity bills!
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Post by marchesarosa on Jul 12, 2011 23:20:45 GMT 1
I have bought some downlighters very cheap and cheerful on offer for £7.20 per three including 50w halogen bulbs! I've seen the lights on in the showroom and they look a nice warm colour - only trouble is 14 of the little buggers will be 700w! Anyway, if I want I can change the bulbs for more economical LEDs cos the fittings can take both halogen and LED and there are some "warm light" LEDs available.
My electrician took a look at them today and said they were perfectly ok even though very cheap. We'll see!
I don't mind if they give out heat as well as light because, as you say, mak, our houses need warming to some extent a very great deal of the time in the UK and light bulbs (aka "heat balls") contribute.
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Post by marchesarosa on Jul 12, 2011 23:25:27 GMT 1
By the welcome, Worldtravel45, and thanks for the tip about LED miracle bulbs!
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Post by jonjel on Jul 14, 2011 12:08:00 GMT 1
As you may know if you have been following this thread I have been doing a lot of digging around.
I have been told that eventually the tungsten halogen 50w bulbs will be phased out. That is going to cause mayhem, because if you have GU10 fitting then you will find that a GU10 CFL will not fit. Well, it will fit but protrude about a foot from the ceiling and look hideous.
And the same is true in reverse, if you have CFL fittings and put tungten halogen bulbs in they will be recessed so far into the ceiling as to be ridiculous.
The only totally interchangeable bulbs will be tungsten halogen/LED display.
But there are two problems with LED bulbs. First, to get any decent output you will be paying a lot of money. Forget the cheap ones for a few quid, they will light a small cupboard but not a room. I have a couple of torches like M has bought, and all I use them for is a bit of light in the car to find keys etc. when needed.
And second and perhaps more important, for reasons I don't fully understand LEDs do not actually project light while tungsten halogen do.
Since I need shed loads of them for my project I am still looking, and experimenting.
If I fit tungsten halogen bulbs and leave all the lights on I will be burning over 1500 watts. That is a bit of a drain on the wallet. If I bite the bullet and fit proper LEDs that will be a capital cost of over £400, and it would take an awful long time to recoup that. Also you are never sure until you fit them what sort of light you will get - I have yet to find a showroom with a bunch of these in the ceiling so you can make a judgement.
I think I will put the bloody things on timers!
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Post by marchesarosa on Jul 14, 2011 13:12:28 GMT 1
Oh, dear! I asked the salesman if the fittings I bought would take LED bulbs and he said yes. I had better go back and ask him to demonstrate! I don't want any ugly protruding lights should I decide to go for LED.
Thanks for the tip, jonjel.
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Post by jonjel on Jul 14, 2011 13:58:54 GMT 1
Marchesa.
If you have GU10 fittings the bulbs will have two small pins with enlarged ends at the end remote from the bulb.
Tungsten halogen and LED bulbs are interchangeable, provided they have the same supply voltage.
CFL bulbs might fit the same housing, but it is a much bigger bulb so will certainly protrude.
If you went to B&Q and were served by a Saturday boy or girl the chances are they know as much about bulbs as I know about what goes on in the board room at News Corp.
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Post by jonjel on Jul 18, 2011 16:40:56 GMT 1
A little (quite a lot) more research has come up with some interesting facts, but as ever I would appreciate some input from the wise.
A 50 W tungsten halogen gives about 600 Lumens light output. As far as I can tell it has a beam angle of only 38 degrees which came as a bit of surprise.
I have found some 6 W LED's, a cluster of 3x2W, which gives an output (claimed) of 420 Lumens, with a beam angle of 45 degrees.
I have found others with clusters of 60 LED's but with a beam angle of 120 degrees, and my thinking is those are more of a general light than a spot. I think I will go for the narrow beam angle, after I have checked the spread on a drawing.
And cheap enough to try out methinks. Less than a fiver each.
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