Public Transport V The Car

[abacus9900]

Sept 17, 2010 16:57:44 GMT 1 rsmith7 said:

Sept 17, 2010 15:02:22 GMT 1 abacus9900 said:

The behavioural science of using public transport as opposed to using a private car might be a starting point. Or doesn't behavioural science qualify as a science?

Thst's a good idea.

I've heard some skewed ideas about public transport being better for your mental health.
Not this Charlie, I can tell you.
The last time I used a bus, it made me miss a flight.
Apoplectic with rage and vowed never to sit on the stupid, inefficient, slow, non-smoking things again. ;D

Yep, last time I used a bus I had to move my seat due to a couple of annoying schoolkids. I don't know how people can just put up with trashy behaviour.

[mak2]

One of the things that puts me off public transport, in London, is the constant stream of officious announcements.
Most of them are of no value the first time of hearing. By the time I have heard the same thing repeated 20 times, I feel like hitting someone....
.... but there is no point in hitting a loudspeaker.

[carnyx]

You can't beat the car. As for congestion, most Train and Coach trips generate at least one car journey per journey

And, check out the marginal cost of a car journey against the cost of any PT trip.

Then there is the energy use. The payload ratio gives a good idea of fuel efficiency. Cars come out best over Buses and Trains. And as 'pollution' is directly related to energy use, cars are the least polluters.

And, fre Countryside utilisation (acres of ground per passenger/hour) .. cars are much better than trains.

And so on ..

They should have asphalted-over the railway tracks and converted the stations and sidings to carparks.

As it is, who wants to go to London these days, other than as a Big Occasion that will justify the display of conspicuous consumption?

[marchesarosa]

who wants to go to London these days

Not me, I avoid the South East of England like the plague when choosing my holiday locations. The influence of the Great Wen spreads so far out into the surrounding counties making driving unpleasant and stressful and prices so much higher than elsewhere. I always go on self-catering hols these days. How could I cart my half hundredweight of essential provisions plus reclining chairs on a coach?

The ex-railway tracks make very pleasant walking routes, too!

[StuartG]

Steady on You two, I like the choo choo. I don't like their prices. I expect that like most of our strategic assets it'll get sold off to someone in the EU. [again]


mod: add like most

[marchesarosa]

I like the choochoo too for certain purposes, stu, - like the commute to work if have to. But otherwise it is extremely expensive and inconvenient when you have to book weeks in advance to get a reasonable price and are limited to a particular train. This is not what I consider a public service. Anything that involves carrying a heavy suitcase is a no no on a bus or a train and you have to get yourself to the railway or coach station in the first place. OK if you are a travelling light hiker or day tripper or some such but that is a small category of leisure users.

Supermarket shopping is impossible by bus. Ever seen the people queuing for taxis at the supermarket with their mountains of bags? This is what you have to do when the family has no access to a car.

People who think public transport is a substitute for the car (except in central London) clearly have not considered the implications.

It is like the renewable energy proposals - OK until you start working out that conventional thermal capacity is always required for back-up. Same with public transport - it is only viable when you ALSO have the choice of a car to fill the MANY gaps in the system.

[carnyx]

StuartG,

Rail was never a cheap form of transport. It was devised to move huge quantities of coal and iron ore around. Only later did they consider that moving people could also be profitable; but heavy goods dictated the standards and the technology.

Whilst most of Europe finished the war with no transport system at all speak of, it having been nicked by the Nazis and destroyed by the Allies, they had no option but to rebuild it all asap. The UK's rail system was intact , but clapped-out due to excessive use and near-zero maintenance over the war years. So, Europe ended up with a new old-fashioned rail system which costs an absolute bomb to keep going ( ask them!) .

Over here, we could advance to more economic and useful road systems, but fell into an ideological Union war. They resisted everything that was at all threatening to their members, even the upgrading of the network, so we had no maintenance, and ran the whole thing into the ground. Beeching was inevitable, but the big mistake was to give up the rights-of-way.

Anyway, we now have a Lazarus of a rail system, costing a fortune to subsidise, and a fortune to travel on. No really new technology involved either, so no export potential.

In National terms, after the war we shunted ourselves into a dead-end. We could have continued to lead the world in transport technology, as we had done since 1500. But, the ideological wars got in the way and the reactionary socialists won,trapping us in 1948 like a fly in amber.

[StuartG]

Abacus,
'Yep, last time I used a bus I had to move my seat due to a couple of annoying schoolkids. I don't know how people can just put up with trashy behaviour.'
You did, by moving. What You say is 'Oi, You two, knock it off' In Your lowest, most menacing and quiet voice.
Mak2
'constant stream of officious announcements' You know I'd never thought of it that way, but yes.
M&M
' Ever seen the people queuing for taxis at the supermarket with their mountains of bags?' Yes I have, but it didn't register until You said. The supermarket shopping 'experience' is still fairly new to me, I shall have to study it more. [preferably from the cafeteria]. I have learned to stick up for myself a bit more from [usually] ladies who propel their trollies in a straight line through any other person. They later can be seen talking to another, their trollies now blocking the aisle.

CarnyX,
Spot on. Best summary I've heard yet on 'The Rail'.

Well that's it then, we're all in agreement. What can we fall out about? I know, ever been cut up by coach, not the buses, but the long distance, regular service. To my mind they are the worst PSV's going. Really bad motorway/dual carriage discipline. No thankyous/acknowledgements when given way. Don't appear to know the length of their own vehicle when overtaking.

[StuartG]

Sept 16, 2010 17:38:12 GMT 1 rsmith7 said:

Google "modal shift in transport" for evidence.

I did that and got...

'BARRIERS TO MODAL SHIFT
CHAPTER ONE Introduction

1.1 Significant modal shift is needed to deliver national and international sustainable development aims for a strong economy, an inclusive society and a clean environment. That so many people currently choose car travel for their journeys is a function of the real and perceived benefits from car travel in terms of time, cost, comfort, reliability and image. The practical plans developed in Scotland must therefore address many factors in order to encourage more efficient travel choices.

1.2 The main aim of this project was to identify and examine the actual barriers that are preventing car travellers from shifting mode to rail, bus, walk or cycle, or not undertaking a journey at all.'

That's from 'The Scottish Government' fortunately it has a DOI of September 16, 2003 and probably won't see fruition. [no money. don't tell me it has] This plan is obviously for the plebs, so public servants needn't be too perturbed. No doubt overseen by chubby chops Himself. As You can sense, I think it to be a spiffin' good ideah.
Next!
www.slciconference.com/about/letter-from-alex-salmond
Edinburgh 28th-29thSept 2010
Scottish Low Carbon Investment Conference.
?? Bet they all went there by car or chaise and pair.