Can electric cars go fast?

[louise]

Seems that they can but...



Taking 10-15 minutes to recharge every time you travel a quarter of a mile may not be that practical.

[helen]

The Tesla Roadster hit's the spot (Nikola Tesla is my favourite (not) mad scientist!) www.greenoptions.com/products/2008-tesla-roadster . Trouble is, it costs a huge amount of money. Folk like RSmith in his island community might call this technology but in towns and cities? 90% of the UK population live in urban environments and most journeys are short. Who needs to drive at 150mph in Birmingham or Manchester? All it costs is to plug the car in at night, take the kids to school, go to work, do shopping, come home................all for the price of a couple of kilowatt hours....pence? When the cost of buying these cars comes down and we choose pence for kilowatt hours or pounds for petrol? Don't know what the government will do, tax electricity at 40%......or not.

[jonjel]

I am not a lover of electric cars, but I doubt there will be a lot of choice as time passes. Prophets of doom will tell you that oil will run out next year, or is it the year after that? However I can not imagine that in 50 or more years time with population growth as it is that we will all be running around in oil driven vehicles, or for that matter heating our homes with the stuff.

The problem of course is, with what do you generate the power to charge your vehicles. Not with oil or gas methinks, and not with bloody windmills most of the time. I think it will have to be Nuclear, and maybe tidal sources.

[principled]

Loiuse, you might be interested in this quote from:

didyouknow.org/the-very-first-motor-car-land-speed-record/

"The first “official” world speed record – only later called the Land Speed Record – was set not in a car with a steam or internal combustion engine but in an electric car. In 1898, Frenchman Comte Gaston de Chasseloup-Laubat reached a speed of 39.24 mph (62,78 km/h) in his Jeantaud electric car. Electric cars were introduced in 1896 and by the end of that century almost 50% of motor cars were electric. An electric car could travel up to 100 miles (160 km) per day. A horse and wagon had to stop every 10 miles (16km), as did steam-driven cars. Gasoline (petrol) driven cars often had to stop every 20 miles (32km) for engine cooling – most simply broke down."

Unfortunately, whilst internal combustion technology "took off", battery technology did not keep pace. The holy grail of the auto industry since I started in it over 40 years ago has always been a high energy density battery. Unfortunately, like nuclear fusion, it always seems to be a "few years away"! But, even if we did have such a component, putting in the equivalent energy of a tankful of juice 1500MJ (1ltr petrol/diesel = approx 35MJ) in the time taken to fill the petrol tank would need some pretty fancy charging points and pretty robust batteries, without even considering the effects on the national grid of 20 million cars.
Having said that, I don't disagree with what Helen said. But no-one should be under any illusions about the autonomy of battery vehicles, once you start putting on screen heaters, interior heaters, lights etc, it reduces dramatically. And the CO2 savings are minimal if the charging is done via fossil/gas power stations (as Jonjel said).

P

[Mr Red]

Fast yes
long way maybe
fast and distant - watch this space.
What will almost certainly happen is that as petrol gets more expensive, our travel habits will change. Live nearer work, watch sports on the TV (Oh isn't that what we get now - wall to wall football), watch sports at a time suitable to us on iPlayer (other channels are available - the amount of football can go down as well as UP - but won't), and use video phones instead of visiting.

And a raft of techie wizardry that will only be available in a few visionaries minds for a few years yet.

Remember Parkinson's Law - OK work and time were his example but new technology may give us abundant resources that change our habits - like the internet.

Electric cars will improve but the way we use them will get more rational than the profligacy today. Costs will dictate I am right.

[jonjel]

I will go along with that Mr Red, but perhaps we should question the obsession with speed.

I can't remember the figures, but I think the cost of upgrading the London/Glasgow railway is several billion, and that is to save around 45 minutes on the journey.

I would think the additional wear and tear on the rolling stock due to increased speed, and the capital cost of that stock, plus the fact that the passengers will in the end be paying the bill will rule out rail travel of that type for all but the few.

A similar scenario to Concord in fact.

I have sat at video conferences talking to people around the globe. Initially it is a bit weird but once you get used to it they work. And the saving in time travel costs hotel bills and the inevitable night out is staggering. That is the future I think.

[rsmith7]

Feb 25, 2011 11:41:27 GMT 1 jonjel said:

I will go along with that Mr Red, but perhaps we should question the obsession with speed.

I can't remember the figures, but I think the cost of upgrading the London/Glasgow railway is several billion, and that is to save around 45 minutes on the journey.

I would think the additional wear and tear on the rolling stock due to increased speed, and the capital cost of that stock, plus the fact that the passengers will in the end be paying the bill will rule out rail travel of that type for all but the few.

A similar scenario to Concord in fact.

I have sat at video conferences talking to people around the globe. Initially it is a bit weird but once you get used to it they work. And the saving in time travel costs hotel bills and the inevitable night out is staggering. That is the future I think.

Quite right. The solution is to grub up the inefficient railways and build roads.
Cars will be electric eventually but today's efforts are utterly useless. Human ingenuity and consumer demand will lead to useable electric cars - in 30 - 40 years time.
That is, unless our economy is snuffed out by socialists and we end up back in the dark ages.

[marchesarosa]

Why electric cars are really coal cars by chemistry Professor, Chris Rhodes

It is claimed in a Royal Academy of Engineering (RAE) report on electric cars that they are in any case cleaner because 80 - 90% of the energy put into them in terms of electricity is recovered in terms of useful power at the wheels, to be compared with 20 - 30% in a conventional oil-powered car.

Well, that sounds good, but the reality is that only about one third of the energy in the coal or gas actually ends-up as electricity because of the Second Law of Thermodynamics and the Carnot Cycle limit - the other two thirds being thrown away as heat. Thus the electric car is harvesting in terms of well-to-wheel miles only about 27% of the original fossil fuel energy, so not that much better than the standard car running on petrol or diesel.

The difference is merely whether about the same quantity of waste heat energy is thrown away at source or in the vehicle.


oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Why-Electric-Cars-are-Really-Coal-Cars.html

[marchesarosa]

Alan Bates says

Some decades ago, the Chairman of the Coal Board was taken to task by an interviewer because he had an electric fire in his office when he ought to have had a coal fire.

His reply was on the lines of, "Electricity is coal by wire".