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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 9, 2011 20:17:40 GMT 1
Well back to fundamental bewilderment Two slits and a photon. Splitting and adding and subtracting
Like crazy
Crazy so we do not understand.
How can a single,indivisbale photon split, go two ways, interfere with itself?
God knows Literally, we mere humans are gobsmacked
Roger Penrose might have an answer
-10.5
He reckons that this mysterious number holds the key!
It can find the n th root of any old bollocks!
Fancy that!
And explain these odd photons acting queerly
That bastard Euler
ejpi = 1
Thats what he said!
Of course we all knew that anyawy. Didn't we?
Of course we bloody did
2 slits, Penrose, -10.5 and Euler!
All is clear!
But what about the dyke?
WRONG! IRRELEVANT!
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 9, 2011 20:47:38 GMT 1
I think fundamentally we haven't got a clue what is going on in this experiment but I suppose it is incumbent on those who are supposed to know to offer any old bull that sounds interesting as a solution.
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 9, 2011 22:04:03 GMT 1
It just does, get used to quantum theory, and stop wasting everyones time with these inane posts.
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Post by helen on Feb 9, 2011 22:37:54 GMT 1
I'm not too up on the maths really, did it to A-level and stats as an undergraduate, I do chemistry but isn't e (raised to the power i times pi) plus one equals zero the most elegant equation in science? Euler's equation reaches down into the very far reaches of knowledge. Some thing's, Abacuss9900 cant be explained in words!
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 9, 2011 22:46:13 GMT 1
It just does, get used to quantum theory, and stop wasting everyones time with these inane posts. It just does? Good grief woman you're supposed to be a scientist!
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 9, 2011 22:46:52 GMT 1
I'm not too up on the maths really, did it to A-level and stats as an undergraduate, I do chemistry but isn't e (raised to the power i times pi) plus one equals zero the most elegant equation in science? Euler's equation reaches down into the very far reaches of knowledge. Some thing's, Abacuss9900 cant be explained in words! Does maths really explain anything Helen? It's just a way of modelling our experiences, after all.
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Post by helen on Feb 9, 2011 23:03:31 GMT 1
'It's just a way of modelling our experiences' No it's not, it's the way we measure our experiences. The first bit of maths we learn is 1+1= 2. That's sums, arithmatic. Maths goes further, maths is a science, it's abstract, like love and hate, it lives in the mind. Physics is real, it's about what stuff does but it can't be fully described without maths, neither can biology or chemistry..why do you have such a problem with this?
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 9, 2011 23:11:19 GMT 1
'It's just a way of modelling our experiences' No it's not, it's the way we measure our experiences. The first bit of maths we learn is 1+1= 2. That's sums, arithmatic. Maths goes further, maths is a science, it's abstract, like love and hate, it lives in the mind. Physics is real, it's about what stuff does but it can't be fully described without maths, neither can biology or chemistry..why do you have such a problem with this?
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Post by helen on Feb 9, 2011 23:25:44 GMT 1
Cheer up Abacus9900. Why the sad face? It's Thursday tomorrow and that's nearly the weekend......or don't you do weekends. I have all the kids from school for a science club on Saturday mornings. We make stuff like comets out of dry ice and charcoal and we talk about how things change, Liebnitz described it, he called it calculus. Newton preferred fluxions. What ever, it's an abstraction, electricity and music can be described by it. These kids are 16 and they understand maths, come to my class Abacuss, every Saturday morning at 10am, you will learn more here than anywhere.
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 10, 2011 2:57:00 GMT 1
Stop being stupid man (more probably boy)! That is what the experiments tell us. People tried to disprove it, but failed. So the fundamental things of the universe behave in a way which is totally other to what we expected or to what we can intuitively understand. Consider what an amazing thing that is that we have managed to discover! Rather than getting stuck in this silly rut of saying repeatedly -- how can it do that, it makes no sense............Or claiming that we know nothing or understand nothing, when actually we have the most precisely tested theory in all of physics, and it gets the right answer as well!
Nature is fundamentally quantum, and there is no point banging your head against the wall trying to 'understand' intuitively something that our intuition will never be able to cope with. Actually, science got away from that human-centric view of nature a while ago, you're just stuck in the past.
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 9:05:26 GMT 1
I think fundamentally we haven't got a clue what is going on in this experiment but I suppose it is incumbent on those who are supposed to know to offer any old bull that sounds interesting as a solution. Hi Abacus Penrose 'explains' the phenomenon in terms of -1 0.5. Although this odd number and its manipulations are quite elementary, it is difficult going following his explanation. I will attempt to understand what he is saying and get back. It seems that the wave function of a photon can be split into two complex vectors that each go through the separate slits which then modifies the vectors so that they add to a different resultant (positive or negative) (You can see from that that quite a lot more than ability with -1 0.5 is required!) But naturally, as a sensible person, he too is very sceptical of all the 'explanations' and looks forward to a new theory that will replace QM and be rid of its internal contradictions.
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Post by carnyx on Feb 10, 2011 9:57:09 GMT 1
More barking from STA;
Who is this 'we' you refer to?
Oh, really?
Ah..... here we have the misanthropic statement .. beloved of high priests of all stripe ....
[Actually, science got away from that human-centric view of nature a while ago, you're just stuck in the past.[/quote]
Reinforced ... and appeals to the 'Brave New World' . Stand Back, here comes a Physicist! Next it will be special uniforms and 'do as we say' ....
Really, STA, you cannot see the cultural cul-de-sac you have got yourself stuck up ... Bark away from your manger; !,!,! ...... to quote Garry Larson.
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 10:16:29 GMT 1
....isn't e (raised to the power i times pi) plus one equals zero the most elegant equation in science? Yup That's what they say But Rather like a burger-eating fat-arsed lassette dressed in purple silked shell-suit and shod in unlaced £200 trainers queuing at the Uffizi bcoz she's 'eard they 'ave porn there, sometimes universal elegance and beauty must be explicitly demonstrated Like with me It had to be pointed out to me (looking for sexual gratification by numbers) that e i pi=1 contained the important numbers e (the natural number) i the imaginary number, pi the most important irrational that occurs in nearly all physical equations, 1 and 0, the most important real numbers of all Some thing's, Abacuss9900 cant be explained in words! How true of the metaphysical, the abstract, the inner self! But in the case of things physical many would say (including Feynman) that if it can't be explained in words then it ain't understood properly Mathematics often (more often than not it seems) leads its practionenrs into dark and mysterious realms that they do not understand. The test of that lack of understanding is simply, as Feynamn said, 'if it cannot be explained so that an intelligent undergraduate first-year fresher course can understand, then it is not understood' Nothing wrong with not understanding Newton did not understand Gravity He knew what it did and tamed its irrationality with mathematics, but even today, no-one has a clue why masses find one another attractive. Doubt they ever will really The simple truth that is evidenced by Newtons Laws is that we can produce beautiful elegant mathematics that allows us to predict things very accurately without having a clue as to why what the mathematics so accurately describes actually happens, nor even how it happens. That happens at all levels of mathematics. Your students might, for example, solve quadratic equations simply by using mechanistic methods that they do not undertsand. They might even get to university and get a degree in physics without 'understanding' much at all
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 11:11:34 GMT 1
'It's just a way of modelling our experiences' No it's not, it's the way we measure our experiences. Measure? Are you sure? What measurements does maths undertake? To take a measuremnt is a physical activity. Mathematics is an abstract activity. Maths uses measurements, but surely does not 'measure'!? Now measure up young lady, and think before you utter! The first bit of maths we learn is 1+1= 2. That's sums, arithmatic. Maths goes further, maths is a science, it's abstract, like love and hate, it lives in the mind. I suggest that you avoid that young new maths master for a while! Physics is real, it's about what stuff does but it can't be fully described without maths, neither can biology or chemistry..why do you have such a problem with this? Well I do not know much about biology orchemistry, but physics also cannot be described fully with maths either.
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 10, 2011 11:26:50 GMT 1
Ok, let's talk about -1 0.5. What precisely does this mean? Come to that, what is -1?
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