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Post by pumblechook on Sept 12, 2010 19:25:39 GMT 1
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 12, 2010 19:51:09 GMT 1
"Lazarus - a dead man walking" A perfect appraisal of your arguments.
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Post by lazarus on Sept 13, 2010 19:49:21 GMT 1
An ill wind blows for Denmark's green energy revolution;---- Though it doesn't seem to have put them off replacing old technologies. From the link; "It seems to have become a political fashion to say that there should be more support for wind. But we have to look at other renewables. We cannot go on with wind power only." And some of the biggest critics are environmentalists who moan about on shore turbines and their noise. There is no mention that jobs will be lost or major manufactures will go abroad. You haven't supplied enough support for that assumption. Does Nissan even have a plant in Denmark?
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 13, 2010 20:14:07 GMT 1
Which renewable energy source or generator do you suggest lazarus?
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Post by marchesarosa on Sept 13, 2010 21:42:09 GMT 1
"There has also been growing scrutiny of the wind industry's macro claims. Though wind may indeed generate an amount of electricity equal to about a fifth of Danes' needs, most of that electricity cannot actually be used in Denmark.
Except with hydropower, electricity cannot be stored in large quantities. The power companies have to generate it at the moment you need to use it. But wind's key disadvantage – in Denmark, as elsewhere – is its unpredictability and uncontrollability. Most of the time, the wind does not blow at the right speeds to generate electricity. And even when it does, that is often at times when little electricity is needed – in the middle of the night, for instance.
So most of the wind electricity Denmark generates has to be exported, through interconnection cables - to Germany, to balance the fluctuations in that country's own wind carpet, or to Sweden and Norway, whose entire power system is hydroelectric, and where it can be stored. (The Swedes and Norwegians use it themselves - or sell it back, at a profit, to the Danes. If they use it themselves, there is, of course, no saving whatever of C02 – because all Norway and Sweden's domestically-generated hydropower is carbon-neutral anyway.)
"I would interpret the [export] data as showing that the Danes rely on their fossil-fuel plants for their everyday needs," says John Constable, research director for the London-based Renewable Energy Foundation, which has commissioned detailed research on the Danish experience. "They don't get 20 per cent of their electricity from wind. The truth is that a much larger unit, consisting of Denmark and Germany, has managed to get about 7 per cent – and that only because of a fortuitous link with Norwegian and Swedish hydropower."
Britain, meanwhile, almost certainly could not manage even that. "Our system is totally different," says Constable. "We are an island grid. We have virtually no interconnectors with other countries, only a very limited amount of hydro, and the British Government simply doesn't know how to integrate the very large fleets of wind turbines that they are blithely introducing. It's a leap in the dark."
Britain will almost certainly, in fact, end up having to build as many new fossil-fuelled power stations as it would have done without windfarms, to provide covering power for the fluctuations of the wind."
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Post by marchesarosa on Sept 13, 2010 21:48:30 GMT 1
See this discussion entitled IPCC Insiders Speak Out radio4scienceboards.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=witter&action=display&thread=127It is about how much benefit and disbenefit is derived from the research investment in new energy generation technologies. The IPCC claimed technological innovation would REDUCE CO2 mitigation costs. Richard Tol and others say no - the opportunity cost is higher than the gains.
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Post by pumblechook on Sept 13, 2010 22:08:57 GMT 1
I would have thought that it is pretty obvious that energy costs are a major factor for companies either deciding to relocate or even come to the UK in the first place.
The pottery industry in North Staffs and elsewhere has relocated to other parts of the world and one of the factors cited is energy costs.
And there are many firms like this one....
"THE American owners of Spondon factory Celanese Acetate today blamed soaring UK energy prices for their devastating plan to shut the plant with the loss of 460 jobs. Celanese Corporation said it was consulting with staff over proposals to close the site next year to concentrate production in Belgium, the US and Mexico, where power costs were cheaper. The move would bring to an end almost 100 years of acetate production at the factory and be the final death knell for an iconic city business which once employed 20,000 people."
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Post by pumblechook on Sept 13, 2010 23:01:51 GMT 1
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 13, 2010 23:05:36 GMT 1
My electricity costs for a year are around £6000. They used to be around £4500. The difference is mostly to pay for renewable tripe.
That's the flights for a family holiday....or ten cases of wine.
I'm not impressed.
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Post by pumblechook on Sept 13, 2010 23:10:52 GMT 1
Is that a business bill then?
Mine is around £300 a year.
Energy bills are expected to rise by 33%. Not only do bills rise due to renewables but taxes do as well.
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 14, 2010 11:54:30 GMT 1
That's the house plus a couple of shellfish storage ponds and a small walk in bait freezer. Energy bills are expected to rise by 33% because they insist on building more and more "renewable" generators. A strategy to destroy the economy of this country. By design? It would seem so.
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Post by lazarus on Sept 14, 2010 19:08:20 GMT 1
Which renewable energy source or generator do you suggest lazarus? Why would I have a preference, each has advantages and disadvantages.
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 14, 2010 20:43:07 GMT 1
£azarus Oh please share your "insights" on which renewable technology you prefer.
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Post by rsmith7 on Sept 14, 2010 20:44:27 GMT 1
Chook, £300/year! Respect! How do you manage that?
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Post by lazarus on Sept 15, 2010 17:02:49 GMT 1
£azarus Oh please share your "insights" on which renewable technology you prefer. Why would I have a preference? Electricity doesn't have different flavours!
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