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Post by mrsonde on Apr 28, 2018 17:59:49 GMT 1
"It is obvious that the Jews alone were not responsible for the crucifixion of Jesus. The Roman government, through the decisions of her governing authorities, Herod and Pontius Pilate, bears a portion of the guilt. It is worthy to note that the Roman historian, Tacitus, writing in his Roman Annals (written between A.D. 115 and 117), mentions that Christ “was executed by sentence of the procurator Pontius Pilate in the reign of Tiberius” (Annals, XV. 44). He does not mention Jewish responsibility for the death of Christ." (Jews for Jesus). Huh? The responsibility for the death and sentencing of Christ is well laid out in the synoptic gospels. Pilate gave the sentence, as demanded by the Sanhedrin, as affirmed by the crowd. There's no point trying to argue with this, is there?
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Post by mrsonde on Apr 28, 2018 18:09:42 GMT 1
'Christian anti-semitism' (if it still exists) has nothing to do with the current Labour Party anti-Semitism, whereas Moslem anti-Semitism most definitely does Have you forgotten what I posted above - which the marchesa unwittingly gave credence to as well - that popularity among Muslims of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a work originating in Russia and owing far more to the background of Christian antisemitism in Europ than to anything in the Qu'ran. The "protocols" are clearly a bright shiny thing for you. It's irrelevant. It wasn't the cause of European anti-semitism, it wasn;t the cause of Islamic anti-semitism - both have their antecedent causes entirely elsewhere, and required the protocols to perpetuate them not in the least. This is a matter of fierce debate, of course - the current consensus seems to be that it's a misinterpretation of an ambiguous translation. "The Jews" were responsible for the death of Christ, of course (though it wasn't "murder", by anyone's definition.) Not all "Jews" - John was a Jew, as was Jesus, as were his disciples, as were his followers. (The real source of bitter "Christian" anti-semitism is Matthew - the blood curse - in any case, followed by Paul.) But all this is besides the point - anti-semitism does not derive from the New Testament, obviously.
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Post by mrsonde on Apr 28, 2018 19:09:39 GMT 1
Can't find any indication that he might be. There is a short biography of him here mearone.com/bio/Corbyn now says about the mural "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic." So an artist's work is severely criticised and demands made by jewish groups that it be removed as anti-semitic, and Corbyn says that it's okay and not anti-semitic - before he even looks at it "properly"? Either he doesn't take anti-semitism seriously, or the onus and responsibilities of his own position. Both, probably, it seems to me.
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Post by Progenitor A on Apr 28, 2018 19:26:03 GMT 1
Hi Nick! Great to see you back, posting in your inmitably eloquent and erudite manner Keep it up, my friend!
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Post by mrsonde on Apr 28, 2018 19:36:03 GMT 1
Doesn't matter, marchesa. Christian antisemitism is deeply rooted, even if as you correctly state, it does not have its origins in Christ himself. And what we are doing here shouldn't just be more demonising of Muslims, but tracing how antisemitism got into the modern Labour party. How that happened is a lot more complicated than Labour's stand on islamophobia. It's not that complicated. The modern Labour party has been taken over by the far Left, it's pretty much as simple as that. And so the long-standing anti-semitisism of the far Left has become a problem, just as it was in the early 80s, (when largely by chance I had the opportunity to watch the Ted Grant/Ted Knight brigade in action (it was de rigeur for all those Militant types to adopt a working class common-bloke pose, even though the vast majority of them were middle class drop-outs, or else middle-aged lothario art school lecturers, who'd never worked a day in their lives) for exactly the same reasons. The roots of Labour anti-semitism is straightforward - it's anti-Zionism. There may be a few Jew-haters amongst them, as with the far Right. but they must be a trivial minority. Now - how did this anti-Zionism arise? When the roots of that movement lie in international socialism, and the Labour Party was largely founded and initially funded by Zionist Jews? One, Israel is associated in the far Left's mind with being an ally of America (we've seen that trope reiterated on this board often enough. That alone makes them the enemy; except in this case Israel was also an open enemy of the Soviet Union, and even as late as the early 80s this was enough to earn the far Left's enmity. Beyond and deeper than this, Israel is the one successful democratic capitalist country in the Middle East - everything the far Left hates. Surrounded by countries pursuing Leftist economics and anti-democratic polities, where up to 90% of the population were state employees and Marx was the ackowledged guru, this determined little country nevertheless prevailed against their united might and outstripped them in every imaginable parameter of human societal achievement - a West v East Germany contrast writ large. And then, finally, of course, there were the examples of Israel's midemeanours - grossly exaggerated and distorted, purely if unthinkingly cherry-picked out of any historical objectivity for propaganda purposes, then as now. I do not say that it's impossible to be an anti-Zionist and not be an anti-semite. I suspect that Miko Peled character might be just such, even though Corbyn's entourage disagrees and declares him to be both. But it seems to me that you can't be both without being astonishingly ignorant of history, or hideously naive and hopelessly, suicidally (someone else's suicide, of course) idealistic, to an extent that can only be called criminally stupid.
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Post by mrsonde on Apr 28, 2018 19:42:02 GMT 1
Hi Nick! Great to see you back, posting in your inmitably eloquent and erudite manner Keep it up, my friend! Thanks Nay, great to see you again too. And, my warmest greetings to the Marchesa too - now isn't that really a great poster to see back? Like having Camille Paglia invited to be the imam at the local WI (Fascists of the Left Unite! branch) mosque.
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Post by jean on May 5, 2018 14:14:17 GMT 1
It is rather antisemitic, isn’t it, to refer to Labour’s ‘Jewish problem’ rather than its ‘antisemitism problem’?
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Post by aquacultured on May 5, 2018 20:40:20 GMT 1
While we're about it, 'irreconcilable' also seems odd.
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Post by mrsonde on May 9, 2018 18:30:39 GMT 1
Sorry - I've been out of the country and out of touch with the minutiae of Brit news. What or whom are you both referring to?
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Post by aquacultured on May 9, 2018 20:29:48 GMT 1
The title of the thread.
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Post by mrsonde on May 10, 2018 22:16:12 GMT 1
Ahh, thankyou. I thought for a moment of foolishness one of you might be making a point worthy of consideration. I must start paying more attention to those little gray avatar names.
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Post by aquacultured on May 12, 2018 0:50:16 GMT 1
Paying more attention?
Surely not.
But look forward, we do.
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Post by mrsonde on May 14, 2018 0:34:13 GMT 1
is that Aqua? Aqua? Is that you, dear? Have you come to visit me again?
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