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Post by Progenitor A on Apr 2, 2018 7:53:04 GMT 1
It seems, despite Baroness's Chakrabati's well-rewarded whitewash, that there is yet a substantial problem of racism in the labour party
50-60 years ago, the core support for labour was the white working class.
At some point the Labour party decided that the white working class was undeserving of Labour's patronage as they were generally anti-immigration and perceived as racist.
It was then obvious where Labour should cast its good - there were millions of minorities in the country, minorities that were oppressesed and discriminted against.
So the Labour Party adopted the large Moslem population of Britian.
That this strategy is now a very impotant part of Labour's electoral success (just look aft who is now the somewhat inadquate mayor of london) very plain, and is also very problemtic for Labour.
The problem is that very many Moslems are virulently anti-Jew, quite unashamedly so.
Not anti-Israeli, although that may well be the root cause of their anti-semitism, but anti-Jewish.
This is a phenomenon throughout Europe, indeed in France Jews are now leving for Isreal because of Moslem hatred
So labour has a big problem - and do note how few commentators have pointed out the root cause of their problem, because the authorities are in denial over the Moslem population - they dare not speak what all know because that would enourage extreme right wing groups
So what is Labour to do?
Well, frankly there is little they can do if they are not to alienate a very important plank of their election strategy
An irreconcilable problem
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Post by fascinating on Apr 2, 2018 8:33:08 GMT 1
I would like to see real examples of "virulently anti-Jew" statements made by Labour party members. I suspect that this issue is being promoted by anti-Labour newspapers. There are bigots in all parties, and a list relating to the Conservative party can be found here www.unitetheunion.org/uploaded/documents/(JN7434)%20A4%20Tory%20Racism%20Brochure%20SIN11-26629.pdf. Here are a couple of examples "In May 2014, Tory Coulsdon activist Stephen Lees tweeted “Every single Muslim should be expelled from this country – not deported – expelled, and every mosque demolished. 23 The Conservative Party denied he was a member. 24 Yet he was apparently a former Secretary of Coulsdon South Conservatives 25 • In August 2014 UCL Conservative Society was under scrutiny for a series of anti-semitic, Islamophobic and racist remarks, fostering a culture of discrimination and bullying, and creating a “toxic” environment. One comment included, “Jews own everything, we all know it’s true. I wish I was Jewish, but my nose isn’t long enough”. 26 In October 2014 after an investigation by UCL Union, the Conservative Society was ordered to apologise 27 . There is no evidence that the Conservative Party investigated the incidents. • In October 2014, Maidenhead Tory councillor Alan Mellins suggested complained about Travellers and said the solution was to “Execute them.” He apologised and then later resigned as a councillor over the incident. It is not clear whether the Conservative Party took any disciplinary action. • In January 2015, Derek Laud, a former aide to both Margaret Thatcher and John Major, described the Conservative Party as “essentially racist”. He went on, “They are the ultimate racists because they deal in stereotypes." |
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Post by jean on Apr 2, 2018 8:49:43 GMT 1
None of that means that Labour does not have a problem with antisemitism, fascinating. It is never a good argument to say I'm beyond criticism because someone else is worse.And though I rarely agree with much that Nay says, I am afraid there is some truth in this: ...very many Moslems are virulently anti-Jew, quite unashamedly so. Not anti-Israeli, although that may well be the root cause of their anti-semitism, but anti-Jewish. And ironically perhaps, their antisemitism is fed by documents such as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, with its tropes of a world Jewish conspiracy, which though it originally appeared in Russia rather than anywhere in the Middle East has long been recognised in the West as a forgery, has recently resurfaced in Arab contexts: As popular opposition to Israel spread across the Middle East in the years following its creation in 1948, many Arab governments funded new printings of the Protocols and taught them in their schools as historical fact. They have been accepted as such by many Islamist organizations, such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad. A 2005 report by the Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center found that Arabic editions issued in the Middle East were being sold as far away as London. There are at least nine different Arabic translations of the Protocols and more editions than in any other language including German. The Protocols also figure prominently in the antisemitic propaganda distributed internationally by the Arab countries and have spread to other Muslim countries, such as Pakistan, Malaysia, and Indonesia.
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Post by Progenitor A on Apr 2, 2018 9:18:32 GMT 1
I would like to see real examples of "virulently anti-Jew" statements made by Labour party members. I suspect that this issue is being promoted by anti-Labour newspapers. There are bigots in all parties, and a list relating to the Conservative party can be found here www.unitetheunion.org/uploaded/documents/(JN7434)%20A4%20Tory%20Racism%20Brochure%20SIN11-26629.pdf. Here are a couple of examples "In May 2014, Tory Coulsdon activist Stephen Lees tweeted “Every single Muslim should be expelled from this country – not deported – expelled, and every mosque demolished. 23 The Conservative Party denied he was a member. 24 Yet he was apparently a former Secretary of Coulsdon South Conservatives 25 • In August 2014 UCL Conservative Society was under scrutiny for a series of anti-semitic, Islamophobic and racist remarks, fostering a culture of discrimination and bullying, and creating a “toxic” environment. One comment included, “Jews own everything, we all know it’s true. I wish I was Jewish, but my nose isn’t long enough”. 26 In October 2014 after an investigation by UCL Union, the Conservative Society was ordered to apologise 27 . There is no evidence that the Conservative Party investigated the incidents. • In October 2014, Maidenhead Tory councillor Alan Mellins suggested complained about Travellers and said the solution was to “Execute them.” He apologised and then later resigned as a councillor over the incident. It is not clear whether the Conservative Party took any disciplinary action. • In January 2015, Derek Laud, a former aide to both Margaret Thatcher and John Major, described the Conservative Party as “essentially racist”. He went on, “They are the ultimate racists because they deal in stereotypes." Well, tht's all right then isnt it? Your usual facile response |
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Post by marchesarosa on Apr 2, 2018 11:55:11 GMT 1
I'm glad nay has raised this matter. I have been scanning the board to see who would get round to it. You only have to read the Quran to find the origin of Muslim antisemitism - Jews being likened to pigs and apes etc etc. And don't spout the hogwash about "tolerance" being extended to "people of the book" (so long as they pay the tax levied only on infidels). Pay, convert or die was the choice in the age of Islamic expansion into Christian, Jewish and pagan lands. Jews and Christians are still condemned to eternal hellfire (endlessly and repetitively) in the Quran unless they convert to Islam and accept Muhammad as God's last prophet. Muhammad himself also murdered a Northern Arabian Jewish Tribe, the Qureshi (aka Qurayza), because they would not abandon judaism in favour of his new personality cult. Fascinating (aka Louise) should ask her Saudi in-laws about it. A soap opera inspired by the Protocols was a popular long running tv show in Syria. I don't know whether it still is! UK antisemitism has burgeoned in proportion as the muslim population has grown. Antisemitism will never be extirpated from muslim culture so long as it slavishly venerates the Quran and Muhammad who deeds should be emulated. Muslims are conformists in general. Nay is right, Labour's tolerance of muslim antisemitism has grown in proportion to its dependence on muslim support in many cities. But wait for the squeals of "racist" from Momentum when the basis for muslim antisemitism is stated as the Quran. "Hate speech", no less! Can anyone tell me whether the artist of the antisemitic mural Corbyn exonerated was a muslim? "Kalen Ockerman, known as Mear One" is the artist. This is him  |
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Post by jean on Apr 2, 2018 13:02:06 GMT 1
There's more to it than just the Muslims, marchesa, much as you like it to be all aboput them. Here's an excellent article by David Baddiel:    |
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Post by jean on Apr 2, 2018 13:02:51 GMT 1
Oh, and don't ruin reasonable points with this nonsense: Fascinating (aka Louise)... |
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Post by fascinating on Apr 2, 2018 13:11:25 GMT 1
Not just the "Louise" rubbish, but now "Saudi in-laws". Both bizarre and demented.
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Post by jean on Apr 2, 2018 13:19:17 GMT 1
You only have to read the Quran to find the origin of Muslim antisemitism... Don't forget the Christian antisemitism, marchesa - and the terrible irony that the Protocols, which as I have already pointed out are newly poppular in Muslim contexts, as in your example: actually had their origins in Europe. In this (as in so much else) you oversimplify grossly. |
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Post by marchesarosa on Apr 2, 2018 13:39:02 GMT 1
Jean, Christian antisemistism is not enshrined in the teaching of Jesus Christ whose ethical message is the basis of Christianity. Jesus was a reforming Jew . Christian antisemitism is a later "accretion" of the Church i.e. a formal later institution. Muhammad PREACHED antisemitism from day one and so have muslims from that time onwards. Antisemitism provides most of the basis of Muhammad's "message", in fact. It was mainly a polemic against the antecedent Arabian religions that stood in the way of his own self-serving personality cult. But what do you expect when a warlord founds a religion - love and forgiveness?
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Post by jean on Apr 2, 2018 14:00:14 GMT 1
Doesn't matter, marchesa. Christian antisemitism is deeply rooted, even if as you correctly state, it does not have its origins in Christ himself. And what we are doing here shouldn't just be more demonising of Muslims, but tracing how antisemitism got into the modern Labour party.
How that happened is a lot more complicated than Labour's stand on islamophobia.
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Post by Progenitor A on Apr 2, 2018 14:05:38 GMT 1
You only have to read the Quran to find the origin of Muslim antisemitism... Don't forget the Christian antisemitism, marchesa . 'Christian anti-semitism' (if it still exists) has nothing to do with the current Labour Party anti-Semitism, whereas Moslem anti-Semitism most definitely does |
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Post by Progenitor A on Apr 2, 2018 14:11:22 GMT 1
Doesn't matter, marchesa. Christian antisemitism is deeply rooted Don't you mean WAS? And what we are doing here shouldn't just be more demonising of Muslims Not even as they unashamedly voice their anti-semitism, and in France murder people BECAUSE they are Jews? |
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Post by fascinating on Apr 2, 2018 14:15:51 GMT 1
Can't find any indication that he might be. There is a short biography of him here mearone.com/bio/Corbyn now says about the mural "I sincerely regret that I did not look more closely at the image I was commenting on, the contents of which are deeply disturbing and anti-Semitic." |
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Post by fascinating on Apr 2, 2018 14:19:43 GMT 1
Can you quote any instances of muslim anti-semitism in the Labour party?
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