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Post by jonjel on Dec 3, 2018 12:40:02 GMT 1
A simple question. Should we ask for our money back? I gather the UK has invested around £1.5 billion on this to date.
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Post by Progenitor A on Dec 3, 2018 15:21:46 GMT 1
A simple question. Should we ask for our money back? I gather the UK has invested around £1.5 billion on this to date. We should certainly deduct it from the absurd £39 billion we are paying for no apparent reason
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Post by jonjel on Dec 3, 2018 17:17:36 GMT 1
A simple question. Should we ask for our money back? I gather the UK has invested around £1.5 billion on this to date. We should certainly deduct it from the absurd £39 billion we are paying for no apparent reason Could be interesting when they want a software update while they are debugging it. 'Sorry, but unless you are a free independent state we can not supply you'
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Post by mrsonde on Dec 3, 2018 17:54:26 GMT 1
A simple question. Should we ask for our money back? I gather the UK has invested around £1.5 billion on this to date. Less than what we've given to Pakistan in "development aid" in the past three years. We'll never get that back - it's probably sitting in the nuclear warhead of an ICBM, or in the Swiss bank account of its latest prime minister - but it#s surely past the point of scandal that we're paying more than half a billion a year to such a rogue state shower, if we're talking about forrin scumbags? When there are people freezing to death on our streets?
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Post by alancalverd on Dec 3, 2018 18:54:00 GMT 1
The idea that Galileo will not be available in the UK is absurd.
In September 2003, China joined the Galileo project. In July 2004, Israel signed an agreement with the EU to become a partner in the Galileo project.[61] On 3 June 2005 the EU and Ukraine signed an agreement for Ukraine to join the project, as noted in a press release.[62] As of November 2005, Morocco also joined the programme. In Mid-2006, the Public-Private Partnership fell apart and the European Commission decided to nationalise Galileo as an EU programme.[29] On 3 April 2009, Norway too joined the programme pledging €68.9 million toward development costs and allowing its companies to bid for the construction contracts. Norway, while not a member of the EU, is a member of ESA.[66] On 18 December 2013, Switzerland signed a cooperation agreement to fully participate in the program, and retroactively contributed €80 million for the period 2008–2013.
So you don't need to be a member of the EU to participate in its development, though the EU has managed to fuck up the finance a few times and it is well behind schedule.
Now suppose you are a German pilot wishing to bomb land at Heathrow. Will Galileo switch off as you cross the coast, leaving you to fumble through the world's most crowded airspace by guesswork dead reckoning? I think not. So any UK pilot with a Galileo-enabled receiver can expect to get the same service. Will Galileo not be available to US or Australian ships invading entering Hamburg or Genoa?
You didn't pay for GPS or GLONASS, but every traffic controller, port and airport expects you to use them, and will get very upset if you end up in the wrong place. Galileo is supposed to be compatible for all civilian navigation purposes but you may have to pay an extra company (not national) subscription if you want centimeter precision.
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Post by jonjel on Dec 4, 2018 10:59:12 GMT 1
Are you saying it is simply not going to happen Alan (The UK being denied access) or are you saying that the people who have put that story out there are either misinformed or deliberately stirring the sh1t for political reasons?
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Post by alancalverd on Dec 4, 2018 11:45:35 GMT 1
I can't see how or why UK anyone could or would be denied access to a system that prevents collisions with other aircraft, ships, or terrain. Unless, of course, the Krauts are going to revert to their behavior of 1940 and switch off all the navaids when HM ships and planes approach the coast. Will they never learn?
There is a lot of shitstirring going on right now. Europhiles want us to believe that ICAO, IMCO, CERN, EASA, IAEA, IEC, ISO and indeed just about every worldwide organisation responsible for safety and cooperation, is in the filthy, incompetent hands of the European Union.
The lies are so transparent as to be laughable. The Grauniad recently published an article claiming that US food standards are so low that you could eat a pound of fly eggs every year from the tomato paste on pizza: if you do the calculations with a brain, it would actually take you 1000 years.
Have you noticed the 20 mile queue of lorries trying to get into Switzerland? Have you noticed how hospitals in Iceland and Israel are starved of pharmaceuticals? How come BMW's biggest market is the USA?
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Post by jonjel on Dec 4, 2018 13:02:43 GMT 1
I can't see how or why UK anyone could or would be denied access to a system that prevents collisions with other aircraft, ships, or terrain. Unless, of course, the Krauts are going to revert to their behavior of 1940 and switch off all the navaids when HM ships and planes approach the coast. Will they never learn? There is a lot of shitstirring going on right now. Europhiles want us to believe that ICAO, IMCO, CERN, EASA, IAEA, IEC, ISO and indeed just about every worldwide organisation responsible for safety and cooperation, is in the filthy, incompetent hands of the European Union. The lies are so transparent as to be laughable. The Grauniad recently published an article claiming that US food standards are so low that you could eat a pound of fly eggs every year from the tomato paste on pizza: if you do the calculations with a brain, it would actually take you 1000 years. Have you noticed the 20 mile queue of lorries trying to get into Switzerland? Have you noticed how hospitals in Iceland and Israel are starved of pharmaceuticals? How come BMW's biggest market is the USA? I agree Alan, and have often asked how long will the lorry queues be at Calais? As long as we want to make them if the EU get silly. As for Galileo, I did read that the part of the system which might not be accessible to us would be the fine tuning, mainly used by the military that could drop a letter (attached to a missile) through someone's letter box a thousand miles away,
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Post by mrsonde on Dec 4, 2018 17:47:57 GMT 1
Are you saying it is simply not going to happen Alan (The UK being denied access) or are you saying that the people who have put that story out there are either misinformed or deliberately stirring the sh1t for political reasons? It was Barnier, if memory serves me right.
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Post by alancalverd on Dec 5, 2018 0:52:49 GMT 1
Assuming that the system will cover the British Isles (and it's fuckall use to ships and planes if it doesn't, 'cos they have to go over or round us to get to anywhere else, and Eire is still part of the EU anyway) it's obviously going to be available to EU traffic, and presumably to stuff coming from the USA, Canada, Windies etc into what's left of Europe. So how are they going to selectively block the receiver on my plane? And if I fly to Galway or Hamburg, are they going to make a special exception for this weirdo using a map and stopwatch to grope his way through the airways?
The thing about public service broadcasting is that each word means what it says: you can't prevent anyone with a receiver from hearing it. Barnier is a moronic and uninformed as the remainers.
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Post by mrsonde on Dec 5, 2018 16:46:43 GMT 1
www.ft.com/content/a0c985d4-f704-11e8-af46-2022a0b02a6cPersonally, I seriously question the wisdom of so tying our long-term national defence and security interests to those of the French, Polish, Germans etc. I don't say we're "condemned to repeat" anything, but one thing I'm quite confident about: we as a nation will be here long long after the EU has dissolved into dust and debris, and that certainly won't be far ahead. Either the EU becomes a single fiscal federal state, with the unavoidable German hegemony that must entail, or it splits up into at least three separate disputatious blocs, during which horrendous political upheaval all the old liberal-left supra-national idealistic dreams of people like Aqua will be clearly revealed, to even the most deluded, to be the stealthy creeping to fascism they always were.
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Post by aquacultured on Dec 6, 2018 1:53:09 GMT 1
the old liberal-left supra-national idealistic dreams of people like Aqua will be clearly revealed, to even the most deluded, to be the stealthy creeping to fascism they always were. No wonder you misunderstand. You're obsessed with fascism. It's just a metaphor. aka, cooperation.
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Post by mrsonde on Dec 6, 2018 2:52:39 GMT 1
the old liberal-left supra-national idealistic dreams of people like Aqua will be clearly revealed, to even the most deluded, to be the stealthy creeping to fascism they always were. No wonder you misunderstand. You're obsessed with fascism. It's just a metaphor. No, it's you who misunderstands. Fascism isn't a metaphor. How truly deeply dangerous people like you are. It's a socio-political-economic system, of truly terrible power and inevitably horrendous consequence. It's the system we've been inexorably moving towards since the 60s at least, and whatever the original impulses of Europe were about (more collectivist socialism than fascism - but of course the two readily and perhaps inevitably shade into each other, with a flourish of a pen) the road to fascism is now firmly concreted into the whole European project. Ne need for jackboots and Hugo Boss designed uniforms, of course - what's the point, when you've conquered the whole of Europe worth a damn already, and most of the rest of the world's corporate elites are all too ready to share the loot with you running the same system? Cooperation. Dear God. What can one say to such childlike naivety? How is the EU "cooperating" with the people of Italy - for only the latest example in the now long and growing list - when the Government that they democratically elected to pursue their interests has its budget outlawed by a handful of unelected bureaucrats in Brussels, on the orders of unelected and faceless bankers in Frankfurt? Running a Central Bank that no one has any policy power over, not even German politicians, and whose decisions are made totally behind closed doors with no accountability whatsoever? No politician or regulatory body in Europe has the right or power to even examine their books! And these decisions are those that not so long ago everybody understood were wholly the proper and necessary business of democratic political control, to be mandated by popular vote and without which democracy is merely a cipher, an empty facade - decisions like what taxes people are willing to pay, and to what ends, or whether to borrow and how much, to what ends. No one's "cooperating" with this process. They're orders, and if they're not followed - effectively, you can starve. And if you happen to have been lucky or conscientious enough to save up some money so maybe you won't have to go hungry, well, the bankers can just reach into your bank account and take what they want there too - it's the law. What - you didn't vote for it? You didn't have to - they just wrote it, for themselves: who needs votes any more? You can smell the rotting stench of fascism mouldering up from the sucking bog of this whole painful Brexit process. It's overpowering, in everything the Mays and Grieves and Soubrys so self-righteously declare. Do you ever hear one single word from them about the political or idealistic reasons for staying in the EU? About anything as fancy and impractical as values, or individual freedom, or even anything as conventional as fairness, or redistribution of wealth, or better education, or more equal opportunities for people? Any talk of a vision for the future betterment of the people they're supposed to be representing, let alone anything as elevated as the building of something like a better world? Do you hell - such visions and talk are a totally foreign language to them: the very substance that used to inspire and motivate whole political movements, totally ignored in favour of obeisance to corporate balance sheets and currency speculators minute-to-minute gambles. It's all about will we be "better off", what will we do about the big multi-national corporations that depend on just-in-time deliveries, don't people understand business needs big pools of unskilled cheap labour to make their profits, oh what a catastrophe for business it will be if we don't ignore what the people have democratically voted for and pull every possibly legal trick we can think of to frustrate it, and whine whine whine. With barely concealed anger, note, and threats, and an utter contempt for the people who value something deeper.
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Post by mrsonde on Dec 6, 2018 4:26:56 GMT 1
And you. The man who has sworn to do "everything in his power" to make Brexit the least disastrous as possible! And the best you can come up with is an illiterate and barely comprehensible hotchpotch of ungrammatical mumblings along the lines of: "it's nice to cooperate with people."
You would have surrendered to Nazism in 1940, wouldn't you: admit it man. It's undeniably evident now that May and most of her cabinet would have done. People like them, and you, almost make me ashamed to be English. You'd have grown up happily "serving" a country where your grandchildren speak German, Alan and his family would have been exterminated decades ago, and Halifax or Oswald Mosley would be on our banknotes. But Volkswagen would still get their parts on time, and people like you would still be privileged, and we might still even have been allowed to keep India for our cheap labour...because we'd been so aka cooperative. What's a bit of sovereignty between friends? The ability to make our own laws, instead of having to follow those made by others - hardly worth fighting over. The rights and independence of those we've sworn to defend, including our own countrymen? Well, it's an imperfect world, you can't have everything, negotiation depends on compromise. We have by legal treaty we've voluntarily signed to stay in the Greater German Empire until they allow us to leave? Well - think what a catastrophe it would be if we didn't, and anyway, we can always talk about that later - they're reasonable men, you know: look how reasonable they've been so far!
You know - part of me almost looks forward to another "People's Vote", which looks increasingly likely, thamks to May's incompetence and the Remoaners' trickery. I don't think you remainers have any idea how deeply angry and disgusted most people who voted to leave really are about all these manoeuvrings, these legal tricks, insults to democracy, and blatant lies. And not just people who voted to leave the first time, either - I think it would be an even more emphatic leave victory a second time around. F*#k You!!! It'll say.
Well, hmmmm. I hope that's told you.
This has been Radio Free Europe...Good night, and good luck.
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Post by alancalverd on Dec 6, 2018 9:12:56 GMT 1
Pretty well sums up what the EU has become, even though the Common Market was supposed to prevent it. Something to do with unaccountable power, hence its popularity with career politicians (as distinct from public servants - quite a different species). Slaves cooperate, because they have to. Free men collaborate, because they want to. But my objection to the EU is far simpler: it is bad for Britain. www.theguardian.com/business/2018/apr/08/why-the-uk-trade-deficit-with-the-eu-is-woeful-and-widening'Twas ever thus, which is why I have voted against every phase of joining.
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