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Post by rsmith7 on Feb 5, 2011 23:47:03 GMT 1
Who cares - whatever gets you up in the morning??? Better to be blatant than latent.
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 6, 2011 20:04:50 GMT 1
Well there are cases where even identical twins vary in their sexual orientation. We are told this is a result of 'gene expression'
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Post by helen on Feb 6, 2011 20:34:50 GMT 1
Express your genes? Or express yourself in jeans? My sister is gay. Don't know how these things work. The thing is, she is as happy as a happy thing with her friend. Me? Not happy but can't do gay, prefer willies if you know what I mean.
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 6, 2011 20:46:17 GMT 1
Yes I know what you mean but do you think your sister was born gay?
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Post by helen on Feb 6, 2011 21:12:31 GMT 1
Yes
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 6, 2011 21:16:06 GMT 1
That just a guess Helen?
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Post by helen on Feb 6, 2011 21:42:45 GMT 1
How do we know? I've asked Alice and she has been the same as she ever was, my best friend and decidedly odd, singer in punk band back in the seventies and as happy as a happy thing with her friend now. She's 48 and she should know her mind. I don't know anyone more at peace with their self. I love her and wish I could find such peace.
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 6, 2011 21:48:49 GMT 1
Thank you Helen.
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 7, 2011 14:09:59 GMT 1
Fixed at birth is actually taking a very naive view of biology. So, we have what genes we get, we have which are expressed, we have the effects of upbringing and environment, all of which have some part to play in how we turn out.
Then we have the pre-birth environment as well, where fetal androgen exposure (thought to effect digit ratios -- that is, relative finger lengths), also seem to be linked to sexual orientation.
Apart from scientific curiosity, the question is, should it matter from a moral point of view? Some gay people feel that they were born that way, as a defence against those religious/right-wing commentators who try and classify it as a lifestyle choice (if you choose it, you could be trained to choose otherwise, hence attempts to 'cure' homosexuality). But whether born that way, or just turned out that way, but with a strong genetic disposition, I would prefer saying -- even if I did choose to be lesbian, what's wrong with that from a moral standpoint?
Plus why do so few straight people question why they are heterosexual? Because it is seen as natural, and not needing any explanation............
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 7, 2011 15:38:53 GMT 1
I wasn't approaching this question from a moral standpoint but a scientific one.
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 7, 2011 16:40:45 GMT 1
I wasn't approaching this question from a moral standpoint but a scientific one. Apparently Abacus, homosexuals can be cured. I do not know if it involves genetic engineering or not (which would be required, I suppose, if homosexuals were 'born' that away) i.e. it is genetic.
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 7, 2011 16:50:50 GMT 1
Except the answer to the scientific question does impact on the moral one!
Current research seems to indicate (as for many other complicated human behaviours) a mix of genes, and environment (including pre-natal). And also seems to agree that it is determined rather early-on, and not susceptible to change (whatever some religious groups might claim).
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 7, 2011 16:51:33 GMT 1
Really, naymissus? Could you perhaps provide a reference, since this sounds very interesting.
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 7, 2011 17:12:06 GMT 1
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 7, 2011 17:23:03 GMT 1
Please take more care, because this could come across as insulting nonsense! First, because you use the word 'cure'. And second, because it is not true. Certain individuals, who have a very strong motivation (ie their church tells them they will go to hell), may be able to suppress or not act upon their inclination. But as the link says, actual evidence is that it is usually quite harmful, however noble the intent of the therapist may be.
May I just say, it isn't really a topic to be lightly joked about, especially given what happened to homosexuals not that long ago (e.g. the tragic loss of a genius such as Alan Turing), and what is happening to homosexuals in places like Nigeria.
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