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Post by abacus9900 on Mar 9, 2011 17:36:34 GMT 1
The best known example of the measurement problem in quantum mechanics is the "paradox" of the Schrödinger's cat: a cat is apparently evolving into a superposition of ongoing states that can be characterized as an "alive cat" and states that can be described as a "dead cat". Each of these possibilities is associated with a specific nonzero probability magnitude; the cat seems to be in a "mixed" state. However, a single, particular observation of the cat does not measure the probabilities: it always finds either a living cat, or a dead cat. After the measurement the cat is definitively alive or dead. The question is: How are the probabilities converted into an actual, sharply well-defined outcome?
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Post by speakertoanimals on Mar 9, 2011 17:57:35 GMT 1
Quantum decoherence. Not consciousness. Or perhaps quantum gravity?
There are MANY possibilities, and consciousness doing the trick is an out-dated and unpopular one, as I keep telling you, rather than the ONLY answer, as you keep claiming.
So, can we just refer everyone to your numnerous previous posts on exactly the same subject, and my numerous replies, or do you just want to repeat yourself yet again......................
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Post by Progenitor A on Mar 9, 2011 18:01:21 GMT 1
The question is: How are the probabilities converted into an actual, sharply well-defined outcome? The answer is surely that they are not! The probabilities simply disappear when a measurement is made and we have certainty. The probabilities exist solely in the mind, and we do not understand what is in our mind! (I think!) |
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Post by abacus9900 on Mar 9, 2011 19:00:54 GMT 1
Well, personally I favour the many-worlds interpretation which simplifies everything by proposing that the wavefunction never collapses, which means the entire universe is in superposition, i.e. many different realities at once. The idea is that when a measurement is made there is an interaction between two quantum entities - Schrödinger's cat and a scientist, which entangle and form a single larger quantum entity, so what we consider as a 'classical' state is really an entangled quantum one. So you would get worlds where the the cat is alive and others where it is dead.
The implication of this is that there exists billions upon billions of you in other realities which have branched off by the process I have described. So, if you decided to go out tonight, for example, there would be another reality in which you did not go out and this would branch off, left to its own fate.
This is just a shot in the dark but I think it's possible UFOs are somehow connected with the many-worlds idea, but I could be wrong.
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Post by Progenitor A on Mar 9, 2011 19:14:53 GMT 1
Well, personally I favour the many-worlds interpretation which simplifies everything by proposing that the wavefunction never collapses, which means the entire universe is in superposition, i.e. many different realities at once. The idea is that when a measurement is made there is an interaction between two quantum entities - Schrödinger's cat and a scientist, which entangle and form a single larger quantum entity, so what we consider as a 'classical' state is really an entangled quantum one. So you would get worlds where the the cat is alive and others where it is dead. The implication of this is that there exists billions upon billions of you in other realities which have branched off by the process I have described. So, if you decided to go out tonight, for example, there would be another reality in which you did not go out and this would branch off, left to its own fate. Yes, but surely there is really only one reality out of the many you suppose, and that is the one we perceive by measurement? The other 'realities' may exist, but we have no way of knowing Not at this stage of our development anyway |
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Post by abacus9900 on Mar 9, 2011 19:28:14 GMT 1
Well, personally I favour the many-worlds interpretation which simplifies everything by proposing that the wavefunction never collapses, which means the entire universe is in superposition, i.e. many different realities at once. The idea is that when a measurement is made there is an interaction between two quantum entities - Schrödinger's cat and a scientist, which entangle and form a single larger quantum entity, so what we consider as a 'classical' state is really an entangled quantum one. So you would get worlds where the the cat is alive and others where it is dead. The implication of this is that there exists billions upon billions of you in other realities which have branched off by the process I have described. So, if you decided to go out tonight, for example, there would be another reality in which you did not go out and this would branch off, left to its own fate. Yes, but surely there is really only one reality out of the many you suppose, and that is the one we perceive by measurement? The other 'realities' may exist, but we have no way of knowing Not at this stage of our development anyway Well, if the entire universe is in fact in superposition then we would only be aware of our particular bit of it. There is support for this idea in the field of quantum computing. Quantum computing takes advantage of the idea of superposition by utilising super-positioned bits, or 'Qbits' which make calculations in parallel thereby allowing almost limitless computation. After the Qbits have done their work they are collapsed into 'this' world to yield the results. In fact it would not be theoretically possible to use quantum computing without the notion of 'other worlds'. Some people think that what we are really seeing with this phenomenon is different realities rubbing up against one another although this has yet to be demonstraed. |
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Post by Progenitor A on Mar 9, 2011 19:47:02 GMT 1
Yes, but surely there is really only one reality out of the many you suppose, and that is the one we perceive by measurement? The other 'realities' may exist, but we have no way of knowing Not at this stage of our development anyway Well, if the entire universe is in fact in superposition then we would only be aware of our particular bit of it. There is support for this idea in the field of quantum computing. Quantum computing takes advantage of the idea of superposition by utilising super-positioned bits, or 'Qbits' which make calculations in parallel thereby allowing almost limitless computation. After the Qbits have done their work they are collapsed into 'this' world to yield the results. In fact it would not be theoretically possible to use quantum computing without the notion of 'other worlds'. Some people think that what we are really seeing with this phenomenon is different realities rubbing up against one another although this has yet to be demonstraed. Yup I know that very strange things happen in QM and that the possible explanations are also very strange indeed. As you know, Schriodinger was very opposed to superpositions. Do these QM computers actually work or are they still trying to get them to work? |
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Post by abacus9900 on Mar 9, 2011 20:11:37 GMT 1
Well experiments have been carried out on a very small number of qubits but research continues. I think the engineering challenges are quite formidable.
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Post by Progenitor A on Mar 9, 2011 22:06:41 GMT 1
Well experiments have been carried out on a very small number of qubits but research continues. I think the engineering challenges are quite formidable. That sounds, very much to me, as if they do not yet work! However I would be very interested in details (but not too much detail!) |
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