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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 8, 2010 17:18:42 GMT 1
Why do so many pupils dislike maths subjects? Some people seem to excel at it while others despise it. Is it a problem with teaching maths or is there an inbuilt genetic aversion to doing maths. Or is it just cultural?
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Post by kiteman on Sept 8, 2010 21:46:39 GMT 1
Hypotheses:
> Cultural. I have lost count of the number of parents who were not overly bothered by their child's lack of progress in maths, dismissing it as "Oh, it's OK, I wasn't good at maths either".
> Cultural. Historically, competition has been excised from schools; everybody is equal, all opinions are valid, there's no such thing as a wrong answer. Except in maths, the answers cannot be matters of opinion, close isn't good enough.
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 9, 2010 10:39:40 GMT 1
Hypotheses: > Cultural. I have lost count of the number of parents who were not overly bothered by their child's lack of progress in maths, dismissing it as "Oh, it's OK, I wasn't good at maths either". > Cultural. Historically, competition has been excised from schools; everybody is equal, all opinions are valid, there's no such thing as a wrong answer. Except in maths, the answers cannot be matters of opinion, close isn't good enough. Is it then mainly a matter of parental attitudes, or is it society at large that contributes significantly to mathematical apathy? Perhaps the 'youth culture' of today distracts too many youngsters from taking their studies seriously. |
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Post by kiteman on Sept 9, 2010 11:29:47 GMT 1
Pretty much. As long as they can top up their mobile phones, they don't really see the need for mathematical skills.
(Example from yesterday - 13 year old girl who can't tell the time on an analog clock. "It's all right, I don't need to. The one on my phone is digital".)
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 9, 2010 11:34:54 GMT 1
Pretty much. As long as they can top up their mobile phones, they don't really see the need for mathematical skills. (Example from yesterday - 13 year old girl who can't tell the time on an analog clock. "It's all right, I don't need to. The one on my phone is digital".) That is pitiful, Kiteman. Don't you think some of the values our society so vigorously espouses are doing many kids a disservice? I feel sympathy with the teachers who are expected to 'deliver' in the face of tremendous competition! |
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Post by kiteman on Sept 9, 2010 11:46:49 GMT 1
It's cliched, but I blame the teachers. The teachers from the 1970s.The damage their "progressive" teaching has done is still echoing down the generations. When a school expects a competetive attitude, it gets headlines. A head teacher asks pupils to answer questions, even though they didn't put their hand up, and it gets headlines.  |
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 9, 2010 12:05:13 GMT 1
It's really a case of having to put in the work to achieve anything in this life. I feel many kids nowadays have been so conditioned to instant gratification that they are not accustomed to working towards some worthwhile goal by sustained effort. Call me a grumpy old man, but there it is. In the 1970's perhaps there was too much emphasis on 'coping out' in the name of equality, something we can see the effects of, even today. It would be nice to have an equal society but that is not reality.
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Post by oldpythonboy on Sept 10, 2010 22:35:51 GMT 1
I've always been a staunch believer that a little rote learning is a good thing because it sticks in your brain.
Pythagoras's theorem
Red light has a longer wavelength than violet light
Read All You Good Books In Verse
Times tables
The order of the planets from the sun
Analogue clocks time telling
Monarchs since 1066
Roman Emperors since 1066 (easy)
Man City trophies since 1976 (even easier)
The number of times you can play away before Coleen kicks you out
How God will smite you if you do wrong - oh I think I have taken that too far.
I've got to go now as I'm working on 50 ways to leave your lover or lose your liver.
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 11, 2010 10:03:05 GMT 1
I've always been a staunch believer that a little rote learning is a good thing because it sticks in your brain. It's true, which is why, for example, kids used to have to know their 'times tables' by heart (not sure about the current situation). The point is, if you can remember some things automatically it makes further learning that much easier. |
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Post by harrowbyhall on Sept 27, 2010 16:23:57 GMT 1
'Twas ever thus.
I grew up in the 1940s/50s and "maths" was perceived to be hard then. At primary school we learned our tables and did mental arithmetic tests every morning - to some this was punishment without cause! Most people equated arithmetic with mathematics and regarded their acquaintance with algebra as wasted time.
I recall at my grammar school the apparent importance of Latin. The greatest approval was given to those who continued to study the subject, whereas science (chemistry and physics - no biology, that was only for girls) were regarded as lesser beings.
We have politicians/journalists/opinion leaders who are scientifically and mathematically illiterate. They regard their studies of dead Mediterranean languages, or of novels by early nineteenth century spinsters as evidence of a high level of education (in a group of universities that can be enumerated on the thumbs of both hands).
The arrival of electronic calculators has killed off, it seems, any ability of people to estimate numerical values. Ask people what 20% of a quantity is and they seem incapable of working this out without electronic assistance. I find it difficult to comprehend that shop assistants need their till to determine the amount of change required in a transaction.
Rant over.
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 27, 2010 16:35:29 GMT 1
You cannot force kids to learn maths or anything else. Teaching things in isolation from one another isn't a particularly effective method of imparting knowledge and much better, if possible, to use a tool like maths in trying to understand other subjects, such as science. After all, this is what people who were interested in finding out about the universe, like Newton, did. We can't all be like Newton but the principle remains the same - make kids see the *relevance* of a subject such as maths whenever possible to areas of interest.
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Post by principled on Sept 27, 2010 18:36:52 GMT 1
Abacus
I always found pure maths a little boring and hard to "get my head round", whereas applied maths was always more exciting. I suspect that most engineers and non-mathematicians are that way inclined.
When my own children were going through GCSEs, I found that the teachers very seldom gave examples of the application of the maths they were teaching. Indeed, I remember my daughter believing that probability was about the chances of picking a Queen from a pack of cards (that had been the exercise) until I pointed out to her how probability is involved in most things around us. Would you teach someone how to make dough without telling them for what it can be used?
Having come from the era of log tables and slide rules, where you needed a good idea of the expected value of the answer, I think that calculators were/are introduced too early and that this robs the student of this ability to "feel" what the rough answer should be. I read many years ago that in Japan the calculator was not allowed until pupils were around 15, this sounds eminently sensible.
Having said all that, it is the attitude of those in positions of influence who ultimately decide what studies are and are not valued. I remember some years back a female presenter on the Today programme saying she was hopeless at maths. I immediately thought it doubtful if she would have admitted to being lousy at English or a poor speller. Or the chairman of the Channel Tunnel company saying that negotiating the loans from the bankers was more complicated than building the tunnel. Given these examples is it any wonder society places maths and its application in such low esteem?
P
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Post by abacus9900 on Sept 27, 2010 19:11:11 GMT 1
I am no expert on education but I think perhaps the National Curriculum has a lot to answer for in terms of regarding every student's needs as the same. Let's face it, TNC is basically designed for students who have aspirations to go on to higher study, perhaps university. Those kids in lower streams will inevitably feel a sense of failure in educational terms and some will never recover. Of course, those students who simply do not want to be at school and see no value in it are just wasting teacher's valuable time and I have no time for them. It would be better, perhaps, if subjects like maths could be made more 'relevant' to other areas of interest so that learning becomes more holistic, but this is probably just a pipe dream.
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