|
|
Post by jonjel on Apr 18, 2011 10:13:57 GMT 1
Well, the new law in France is now in place, and I am wondering if it will be fully implemented, and whether we will, or should, follow where they have dared to tread?
I realise it would prevent us from seeing STA with a paper bag on her head, but that is just a cross we will have to bare.....
|
|
|
|
Post by alanseago on Apr 18, 2011 15:36:19 GMT 1
The owner of our local bar always insists that I wear a balaclava. I cannot understand why!
|
|
|
|
Post by principled on Apr 18, 2011 17:49:44 GMT 1
Jonjel,
There was a photo in the DM of Whitechapel showing that Burka use seemed widespread. I wonder what my grandfather would have made of this (he and my father were born there)?
The concern I have is the apparent threats being made to women in and around that area to "cover up" or be dealt with. So here we have segregation not being imposed by the indigenous peoples on the minority but by the immigrants themselves. With modern communication it is very doubtful that they were not aware of the western culture they were emigrating to, so it is hard to understand why, if they find such a society an anathema to their views, that they didn't seek one which more closely resembled the society they wished to live in.
Why is this important? Well, normally, integration takes about one generation, but with enforced segregation this natural process can be "postponed" indefinitely. In countries where land is not at a premium, such communities can effectively continue without friction (I'm thinking of the Amish community in Ohio), but that is not the case in the UK with communities living cheek by jowl. Tolerance of others can be very fickle especially when times are hard and, like a volcano, the pressure that builds can lead to a sudden outburst by the silent majority as opposed to the ethic minority who superficially may be more vocal. I fear that London could be the first to experience this, although I hope not.
Time will tell.
P
|
|
|
|
Post by helen on Apr 18, 2011 20:00:28 GMT 1
Every winter down here in since we were alive here in Devon our gran would knit (my bro, sis and me) us new balaclaver. The winter of 1981/2 these hats were better than chain mail, ok, we we were young teeenagers into punk music but what the hey!!!!!!!
Let's move on thirty years. We were devious b******ds in those days. We knew how to make explosives - I'm sorry to admit to this but it was a love of chemistry, we exploded them in tree trunks, sandstone holes and so on. No Internet in those days just Plymouth Poly library.
Here's the point. I looked like a boy during my early teens and my mate who wore his scout uniform, which I used to copy for a laugh everytime we were outside school; had some very anarchist ideas and was so clear about rule and ruled - he's a colonel in the army now ! Life eh? Or did the Monty Pythons call it The Meaning Of Liff?
|
|
|
|
Post by jonjel on Apr 19, 2011 9:24:43 GMT 1
I was listening to an interview with a British Asian journalist who had perfect English, better than a lot of our 'native' Brits. Apologies but the name eludes me.
She explained that her parents came here when she was very young and in the mornings her father would read the Koran in their native tongue, but in the evenings it would be Peter Rabbit, or the Janet and John books in English as he regarded being able to communicate, and more important to embrace our culture as vital. A wise man.
She also explained that her mother even now only had very basic English, some 45 years after they came here and was only able to say good morning to people at the bus stop for example, conversation in English being impossible. That is terribly sad, but in some way confirms that in some cultures women are very much second class citizens and unimportant and do as they are told and are not really free to do as they wish.
|
|
|
|
Post by marchesarosa on Apr 19, 2011 10:27:56 GMT 1
If you have no concept of your own individuality and your own rights you end up accepting conformity to the "home" culture as "normal". Not having the English language is a great handicap for these women. Even with it they face an uphill struggle against the weight of cultural expectations that the family enforces, sometimes brutally. The chances of our Western ways "rubbing off" on them in an environment of voluntary self-segregation and extreme endogamy are slim. As has been noted OTHER immigrant groups have integrated within a generation, not so muslims. They will happily and determinedly remain forever "alien".
|
|
|
|
Post by louise on Apr 24, 2011 15:38:06 GMT 1
Well, the new law in France is now in place, and I am wondering if it will be fully implemented, and whether we will, or should, follow where they have dared to tread? I realise it would prevent us from seeing STA with a paper bag on her head, but that is just a cross we will have to bare..... Watching the TV coverage of the earthquake in Japan I noticed that very many people wear surgical masks all the time - this was in cities unaffected by the earthquake itself so wasn't against the smell of decay or similar reasons. I wonder how it would be seen in Europe if this became common place? One of the main reasons people are uncomfortable with burka wearing women is that you cannot see their faces and so cannot easily communicate. I suppose the people of Japan have become used to it. |
|
|
|
Post by helen on Apr 24, 2011 16:11:24 GMT 1
Louise, the Japanese folk have a fear about the effects of car and bus exaust fumes all over the country, city pollution has been a problem for many years in (geographically) closed cities like Tokyo, Could be worth research and discussion?
|
|
|
|
Post by principled on Apr 25, 2011 18:25:56 GMT 1
Helen As a chemist you know all the chemical reactions taking place in an IC engine, so I won't bore you with that. One of the issues, primarily with diesel engines is that combustion tends to produce small particulates (often called PM10 to cover anything less than 10 microns). These have been known since the 70s to enter and lodge in the lung cavities and in people susceptible to bronchial problems they can be an irritant. Much has been done to reduce these with the use of particle traps and the bruning of the particles in the exhaust. Unfortunately, we can't see these particles unlike their forebears the large soot particles oft emitted by old diesel engines. I've linked a couple of sites one about diesels on Wiki and the other from Cambridge Uni where 3 types of engine + fuel are discussed for those wondering about which to buy to save the environment! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_exhaustwww.admin.cam.ac.uk/offices/em/sustainability/environment/guidance/vehicle.htmlP |
|
|
|
Post by helen on Apr 25, 2011 19:02:03 GMT 1
Yes Principled, it's true enough what you say. But if you don't to inhale mostly man made particulate crap then isn't it your choice. I'm aware of scores of websites that detail particulate pollution, many are correct but many more are just rubbish. Have you not learned to use the internet yet or do you just have an ill informed opinion. Sorry man, but just stick to Kids TV and The Harry Hill Show and stay away from science and take up painting or gardening or whatever it is you mostly enjoy when not at work.
Love winding folk up, assume you're bloke, with little science.
|
|
|
|
Post by principled on Apr 25, 2011 20:31:20 GMT 1
Helen
I was going to reply, but I'm out of here. I thought that you wanted a debate on IC engine pollution and so wanted a STARTING point. Seems you want to trade abuse.
BTW, you're right. as an engineer I know very little science and as I've only spent 35 years in auto manufacturing including engine testing I don't know my particualtes from my hydrocarbons.
Nice knowing you marchesa, Jonjel, abacus, Nick, Alan et al
Regards
P
|
|
|
|
Post by Joanne Byers on Apr 26, 2011 1:51:38 GMT 1
Principled, I have now banned Helen permanently so I hope you will reconsider your decision to leave. She is clearly batty but that is no reason to permit her to continue her efforts to spoil the board for others.
We cannot afford to lose thoughtful and constructive posters like you.
|
|
|
|
Post by principled on Apr 26, 2011 3:27:48 GMT 1
Joanne
Thanks for your post. I'm not really for banning anyone, which is why I felt it better to withdraw myself instead.
I can stand criticism, but don't "do" personal insults. I'm here to improve my knowledge and offer, where appropriate, my observations or insights.
I feel sorry for Helen as I'm sure she is not well. Having been a teacher and manager I can say that the daily stress of meeting targets set high up in government, can cause some people to become ill. I wish her well.
I'll carry on posting to see how things pan out.
Regards
P
|
|
|
|
Post by rsmith7 on Apr 27, 2011 21:17:35 GMT 1
Joanne Thanks for your post. I'm not really for banning anyone, which is why I felt it better to withdraw myself instead. I can stand criticism, but don't "do" personal insults. I'm here to improve my knowledge and offer, where appropriate, my observations or insights. I feel sorry for Helen as I'm sure she is not well. Having been a teacher and manager I can say that the daily stress of meeting targets set high up in government, can cause some people to become ill. I wish her well. I'll carry on posting to see how things pan out. Regards P Excellent post principled. I should follow your lead and refrain from insulting posters.... Ah...sorry...feel a relapse coming on... Helen, go and get a check up from the neck up you window-licker!  Sorry principled.  |
|
|
|
Post by principled on Apr 28, 2011 3:25:41 GMT 1
Smithy you old goat We all have our relapses, even me. BTW, how's your mate Salmond getting on? He'll be throwing you UKIP buggers out over the border as soon as he gets his majority, which is why I've called back Hadrian to finish the job he started a few millenia back.  I can stand all this face covering business, but I don't want any more of those blokes with bloody tartan skirts coming over the border. They're already running the BBC, next thing we know they'll be Prime minister of the UK!!!  P ;D |
|
