|
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 1:50:11 GMT 1
|
|
|
Post by marchesarosa on May 18, 2011 7:29:05 GMT 1
I have a soft spot for Iceland, Stu, even though I was on tenterhooks for a while wondering whether I would get back the substantial sum of money I had in iceSave.
I think Iceland represents a model of the social structure that the UK might have achieved had it not been for the Norman Conquest imposing the feudal system on a much less hierarchical society. Our still toxically class/status ridden society dates from that event. Iceland had a more democratic beginning. Good for them!
I can understand some wanting to join the EU after the banking debacle but if they do they will lose control of their ONLY natural resource, their fisheries. This is unthinkable!
|
|
|
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 9:07:04 GMT 1
Both my Father and Grandfather thought it was good that we gave in on the cod wars. I could never understand them on this. Grandad, I excused because He could speak the language and so He had an inbuilt bias towards them. I remember thinking that perhaps the War had addled them in some way! I'm not excusing those in this Country, especially in local government, who should have done their homework properly before investing council tax in dubious banks. this should have deterred them "In the 1990s he was sentenced to 12 months in prison, suspended for 2 years, for bookkeeping offences, having faced around 450 charges.[5] He went to Russia, remade his fortune and returned to Iceland, where he also has interests in shipping, publishing, food, communications and property.[6]" but of these local government officers many are still in office. Unlike Germany, who, with their "Kaupthing Edge"... "In Germany, however, there were serious problems with deposit insurance – identical to those suffered by Icesave depositors in the UK and the Netherlands but the German authorities swiftly seized all the assets and deposits in Germany before the Icelandic managers were able to move them, thus preventing them from being transferred to Iceland or other offshore accounts. German depositors started to get their capital back on June 22, 2009, but lost any interest accrued" The best that can be said is that Iceland got in way over its head. StuartG
|
|
|
Post by marchesarosa on May 18, 2011 9:15:15 GMT 1
The cupidity of plutocrats knows no national boundaries. I do not expect morality from bankers and I'm sure you don't either, Stu.
I'm glad our government used strong arm tactics to protect British investors from the Iceland fiasco. Similar strong arm tactics (the equivalent of gunboat diplomacy) in other matters could be deprecated, however. Circumstances alter cases. I'm not immune to a little self-interest and neither is anyone else when push comes to shove.
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 10:09:36 GMT 1
Post by marchesarosa on May 18, 2011 10:09:36 GMT 1
I really like the idea of being part of a nation that has a smaller population than my home city of Leeds. Sounds cosy!
Iceland c319,000 Leeds c450,000
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 10:51:26 GMT 1
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 10:51:26 GMT 1
"I'm glad our government used strong arm tactics to protect British investors from the Iceland fiasco" They didn't that's the whole point, they gave in and paid up [paid You] out of taxes and pension funds and anything else they could get their hands on. Perhaps the fishermen who were displaced from international fishing grounds would not be so magnaminous. The Germans did it right as per my reply with no gunboats or equivalent. StuartG
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 11:55:09 GMT 1
Post by marchesarosa on May 18, 2011 11:55:09 GMT 1
The UK govt also seized Iceland's assets, Stu.
I was one of the LAST of the UK depositors to get my money back in full in April 2009 (first installment in January 2009) AND it was with interest at the relatively high rate (unsustainable, of course!) at which I had originally invested. As far as I remember the money was recouped from Iceland, NOT from the UK taxpayer although the government's action certainly ensured a speedier pay-out than in Germany.
The Icelandic banks trading in the UK were obligated to adher to our Financial Services deposit protection. This was very clear in their literature. I can't comment on the situation in Germany. Maybe it was different.
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 12:53:55 GMT 1
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 12:53:55 GMT 1
They tried to seize them, and missed. That's what's all this is about here: www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/10/iceland-icesave-debt-repayment-no-voteWhen the government here said or implied 'seize assets' they siezed the paper they were written on- NOT the assets. If You remember G Brown was busy 'saving the World'. "UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown announced that the UK government would launch legal action against Iceland.[42] It was too late, however, as much of the assets had been transferred to Iceland or to off-shore accounts." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icesave_dispute#Freezing_of_assets_in_the_UK"In Germany, however, there were serious problems with deposit insurance – identical to those suffered by Icesave depositors in the UK and the Netherlands but the German authorities swiftly seized all the assets and deposits in Germany before the Icelandic managers were able to move them, thus preventing them from being transferred to Iceland or other offshore accounts. German depositors started to get their capital back on June 22, 2009, but lost any interest accrued." en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icesave_dispute#Kaupthing_EdgeSo, as You say, interest was received, but where did it all come from? Where did British depositors get their capital sums returned from? I didn't come from any 'mafia' interests, did it? StuartG
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 14:00:53 GMT 1
Post by marchesarosa on May 18, 2011 14:00:53 GMT 1
I don't blame the Icelanders for refusing to bankroll the debts of their failed banks.
But, apparently, the actual cost to Iceland of the repayment to the Netherlands and UK will not cost a very great deal because it will be offset by the sale of the banks' assets (repatriated so promptly in 2008, as you pointed out.)
You are surely not criticising the UK government's honouring of the deposit protection scheme, Stu? Where did the refund money come from? From us taxpayers, mainly, I should think, and/or sale of government bonds etc - the same place as all other govt expenditure.
I dare say it will be settled amicably in the end between governments. Iceland is a bit of a special case being so very small and its financial sector so disproportionately large at the time of the default. and Iceland does not want to be a pariah for ever more.
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 20:28:17 GMT 1
Post by rsmith7 on May 18, 2011 20:28:17 GMT 1
Considering fishing was their only industry, I can't blame the Icelanders for imposing a 200 mile limit so they could exist as a country. Nah, the real bastards were the EEC who used corrupt science to batter the fishing industry to it's knees with regulation. As for the banking debacle.... Isn't it strange that "idiot" Broon was first out of the blocks with the solution? How he, and fellow traveller, Clinton set up a regulatory structure that made the banks go insane? The three pillars of capitalism - human ingenuity, cheap energy and finance. Regulation, renewables and the banking disaster.
Game over.
Maybe Broon's not so stupid.....
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 21:13:45 GMT 1
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 21:13:45 GMT 1
|
|
|
Iceland
May 18, 2011 21:40:44 GMT 1
Post by StuartG on May 18, 2011 21:40:44 GMT 1
Internarional Business Times... "The Common Fisheries Policy for example, could not have been more damaging to the British (and Scottish) fishing industry, even if it had been intended to be so." This worth a read, King Salmond... 'First Minister of Scotland, has said that he wishes his nation (by which he does not mean the United Kingdom) to have greater influence in the European Union.' my, how the lowly have risen, King Salmond I [de l'Écosse] StuartG uk.ibtimes.com/articles/147785/20110518/eu-is-too-powerful-for-alex-salmond-to-influence-snp-scotland.htm
|
|
|
Iceland
May 19, 2011 15:48:02 GMT 1
Post by speakertoanimals on May 19, 2011 15:48:02 GMT 1
Perhaps interesting to speculate on the interaction between geology and national identity. Having a country that is being rifted apart must colour your outlook somewhat.............
Mind you, gives you an ideal population for genetic studies.
|
|
|
Iceland
May 19, 2011 19:23:35 GMT 1
Post by StuartG on May 19, 2011 19:23:35 GMT 1
|
|
|
Iceland
May 19, 2011 19:32:19 GMT 1
Post by mak2 on May 19, 2011 19:32:19 GMT 1
Iceland is so barren and cold. It is surprising they managed to survive at all, before modern technology. Fishing and geothermal energy are all they have. That is probably why their banks became too large relative to their economy and population. It is a pity that their short period of prosperity was brought to an end by the banking fiasco.
|
|