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Post by mrsonde on May 20, 2018 23:56:01 GMT 1
The standard one. Spatio-temporal occurrences that are know - have corroborated evidence for - to have occurred. Your "The fact is that Israel is an oppressor, maintaining a blockade without any intent to ever lift it, which is in iteslf an act of war (if Israel was subject to such a blockade, it would undoubtedly treat it as a causus belli" doesn't come close to qualifying. Yes. I'm stating that fact. Read the exhchange yourself first. Come back to me if it's still a mystery. So? It's a totally irrelevant point. Not to change their meaning I haven't. Maybe I have, to make a joke, I wouldn't rule such a possibility out. But not to score points in a debate - I don't need to play such tricks. Look on their site. Or their Facebook site. It's not private, and it's not disputed. The leader of the "military arm" of Hamas (Jeez - haven't we been there before!) proclaimed: Break through the fence! Tear out the hearts of any Jew you can find!" What is it? You think you're talking about reasonable people? Aaaah. That's nice.
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Post by aquacultured on May 21, 2018 0:33:38 GMT 1
OK, unattributed quotes and double-quotes again. Perfectly intelligible to you, maybe, but time-wasting to others.
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 0:42:05 GMT 1
These are the cold hard facts of the matter. Only 10% of Palestinians profess any interest in "returning" to Israel, and a clear majority would accept financial compensation for the renunciation of any claim their ancestors might have had when they lived there. Exactly what Israel offered to the Palestinian side at Tabaa, and have done so twice again since, and that Fatah accepted before Hamas forced the last negotiations to break down, because of this very issue. So these "protests" to insist on their "Right to Return" have been orchestrated by an organisation with no interest in reaching a peaceful settlement - its leader insisted on SKY news that all of Palestine was "their land" - that represents less then a tenth of Palestinian "refugees" views and moreover has absolutely zero possibility of ever succeeding. This organisation advises on Facebook those "protesting" to conceal guns and knives beneath their clothes so that when by force of numbers they break the fence down they should run through the countryside, murdering any Israeli they come across. This is why there are dead and injured "protesters" - the more the better, of course, as far as Hamas is concerned. There are some 'facts' to be extracted from this. That's nice, I was hoping so. No, they went to war actually. That's gobbledygook. Hmmm? It's the latest poll conducted, that I've read anyway. I would guess the reality is far far higher. That's a point of view, certainly. Not my point of view; and presumably not Trump's. Shall we let the Nazis march into the Ruhr, against treaty obligations?
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 1:19:50 GMT 1
OK, unattributed quotes and double-quotes again. Perfectly intelligible to you, maybe, but time-wasting to others. Thanyou, Sir Humphrey. If you ever quote an "offical" - let alone a scientfic - source, Your opinion might be worth consideration.
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Post by aquacultured on May 21, 2018 1:22:33 GMT 1
Silly.
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 1:30:43 GMT 1
Move along, please. Abuse leads us nowhere. What is it that you dispute? Not that your opinions have scientific backing, surely?
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 2:03:22 GMT 1
This is not a fact - the Israelis offered the Arabs nothing, unless you think that taking their land was an 'offer' Sigh. It wasn't "their" land. Bits and pieces of it migt have been, here and there, which the owners abandoned. A tiny, tiny percentage. The vast majority of that land, the majority of which wasn't ownerless, was owned by potenates in Syria and Iraq - you know that. There is no other example of "refugees" having such a "status" - it's an absurd notion. If you took it seriously, the whole of Judea is indeed rightfully Jewish!
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Post by jean on May 21, 2018 9:26:45 GMT 1
The Palestinian Arabs might have accepted what Israel offered them when the State of Israel was established... No, they went to war actually. Exactly. Note my conditional.The Arabs might have reached accommodation with the new State of Israel, but they chose not to. They went to war instead. Is it? Another conditional you're having problems with? Perhaps you'll find this easier to read.
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Post by jean on May 21, 2018 9:36:27 GMT 1
It would be interesting to know what evidence you have for claiming that Only 10% of Palestinians profess any interest in "returning" to Israel but I am not holding my breath. It's the latest poll conducted, that I've read anyway... You'll be able to give us a reference, then. I'd agree that the percentage is far far higher than 10%, but I suspect you meant far far lower.
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Post by jean on May 21, 2018 9:39:04 GMT 1
...it's an absurd notion... Maybe, but it's not mine. It's nay you're arguing with here, did you realise?
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 10:43:23 GMT 1
The Palestinian Arabs might have accepted what Israel offered them when the State of Israel was established... Yes, quite. Transjordan wasn't any sort of state. And it wasn't the Arabs keeping them in refugee camps: it was and is the UN. What could and should have happened is what happens now anywhere else - the rohingya seem to be an exception, probably for the same sort of ka-ching! for the UN reason - is that those "refugees" apply for asylum and are granted citizenship within whatever country they wash up.
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 10:53:06 GMT 1
It would be interesting to know what evidence you have for claiming that Only 10% of Palestinians profess any interest in "returning" to Israel but I am not holding my breath. Yes, no doubt I could, if I were so moved. Is someone asking me for assistance? I meant what I said, thankyou miss. The percentage of Palestinians who have no desire to "return" to Israel has almost certainly climbed since that poll was last conducted, as it's been climbing since 67. There are now less than 30,000 original "refugees" left alive, incidentally, and Israel has offered to allow all of those who wish to become Israeli citizens to do so. Good enough for Fatah - not so for Hamas.
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Post by mrsonde on May 21, 2018 10:58:22 GMT 1
...it's an absurd notion... Maybe, but it's not mine. It's nay you're arguing with here, did you realise? Nay and I have no problem with disagreeing with each other; we don't require your playground supervision, thankyou miss. The notion is a piece of legalese of the UN's, which they apply or not as it suits.
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Post by jean on May 21, 2018 11:26:24 GMT 1
I'm just making it clear to you that it's not me you're arguing with, so you don't embarrass yourself by indulging in your usual torrent of abuse because you've forgotten who you're talking to.
(Absurd wasn't a terribly good start though, was it? Nay may be talking about a formulation of the UN, but he does rather like it.)
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Post by jean on May 21, 2018 11:32:23 GMT 1
I meant what I said, thankyou miss. The percentage of Palestinians who have no desire to "return" to Israel has almost certainly climbed since that poll was last conducted, as it's been climbing since 67... Then there wasn't much point in citing the figure of 10%, was there, if you now agree with fascinating that it is much higher?
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