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Post by Progenitor A on May 14, 2018 19:36:32 GMT 1
....kill 51, wound thousands of unarmed protestors on Gaza border! linklink
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Post by jean on May 14, 2018 21:11:57 GMT 1
Stupid, stupid Trump.
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Post by mrsonde on May 15, 2018 22:28:53 GMT 1
....kill 51, wound thousands of unarmed protestors on Gaza border! linklinkReally? I know Australia have somehow got in, but Hamas? Was it any good?
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Post by mrsonde on May 15, 2018 22:31:00 GMT 1
What do you think it has to do with Trump? Been watching C4 news, have you?
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Post by mrsonde on May 16, 2018 7:09:25 GMT 1
These are the cold hard facts of the matter. Only 10% of Palestinians profess any interest in "returning" to Israel, and a clear majority would accept financial compensation for the renunciation of any claim their ancestors might have had when they lived there. Exactly what Israel offered to the Palestinian side at Tabaa, and have done so twice again since, and that Fatah accepted before Hamas forced the last negotiations to break down, because of this very issue. So these "protests" to insist on their "Right to Return" have been orchestrated by an organisation with no interest in reaching a peaceful settlement - its leader insisted on SKY news that all of Palestine was "their land" - that represents less then a tenth of Palestinian "refugees" views and moreover has absolutely zero possibility of ever succeeding. This organisation advises on Facebook those "protesting" to conceal guns and knives beneath their clothes so that when by force of numbers they break the fence down they should run through the countryside, murdering any Israeli they come across. This is why there are dead and injured "protesters" - the more the better, of course, as far as Hamas is concerned.
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Post by fascinating on May 16, 2018 8:26:26 GMT 1
The cold hard fact is that Israel has killed, in the past few days, over 100 people who were unarmed (stones don't count as arms) and protesting in their own territory. They were not in Israel, so Israel's violence is an act of war. No Israelis were in danger during these protests (if any had got through the fence, it might have been a different matter). Many people don't realise that these latest killings are just a flare up of long-term routine killings by Israel.
The fact is that Israel is an oppressor, maintaining a blockade without any intent to ever lift it, which is in iteslf an act of war (if Israel was subject to such a blockade, it would undoubtedly treat it as a causus belli).
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Post by mrsonde on May 16, 2018 9:20:41 GMT 1
The cold hard fact is that Israel has killed, in the past few days, over 100 people who were unarmed (stones don't count as arms) and protesting in their own territory. They were not in Israel, so Israel's violence is an act of war. Where'd you get that figure from? Not that it matters, but you like that game don't you? Israel is not shooting anyone protesting in their own territory - they're shooting people assaulting their frontier fence. It is not an act of war - no other country would act any differently. According to the NY Times there are 50,000 protesters there, ready to get through the fence, and their instructions from Hamas are quite clear. (This in itself is quite encouraging - Hamas predicted more than 300,000 would turn up.) Many people don't realise that Bibi is a lizard from the planet Gog and is part of a reptilian cabal that surreptitiously runs the world. You never did learn what "fact" means, did you?
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Post by fascinating on May 16, 2018 9:31:18 GMT 1
I could easily tell you where, but are you really interested in facts? That's a lie (not a fact). The people shot (including the children) were manifestly within the territory of Gaza. While they were within their own territory, they were no danger to Israelis. No Israelis were harmed. That's ridiculous. You don't get US armed forces, for example, killing Mexicans IN MEXICO trying to get past the border. You can talk rubbish, the fact is that there have been killings by Israel virtually every month for years. israelpalestinetimeline.org/2017deaths/
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Post by mrsonde on May 16, 2018 9:54:06 GMT 1
Not your version of the word, no. Don;t break sentences in half and "quote" them. You've the intellectual integrity of a gnat. Luckily, Israel has never been as dim-witted and insouciant about their survival as you. If there were thousands of them trying to break through the border fence with clear instructions from the Mexican govt. to do so with concealed weapons to murder as many Americans as they can, they most certainly would. Yes. So?
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Post by fascinating on May 16, 2018 13:02:34 GMT 1
What's your version of the word?
Are you suggesting that I altered the sense of what you said? If so, point out how. The Gazans were within their own territory, the fact that they some were assaulting the fence doesn't alter that fact. Anyway, I am sure I have seen you quote parts of sentences.
I suppose it's pointless asking you to provide unbiased evidence that Hamas gave such instructions. Anyway, I don't believe that America would impose an endless blockade on Mexico, nor would kill unarmed people inside the Mexican border.
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Post by jean on May 16, 2018 15:33:53 GMT 1
These are the cold hard facts of the matter. Only 10% of Palestinians profess any interest in "returning" to Israel, and a clear majority would accept financial compensation for the renunciation of any claim their ancestors might have had when they lived there. Exactly what Israel offered to the Palestinian side at Tabaa, and have done so twice again since, and that Fatah accepted before Hamas forced the last negotiations to break down, because of this very issue. So these "protests" to insist on their "Right to Return" have been orchestrated by an organisation with no interest in reaching a peaceful settlement - its leader insisted on SKY news that all of Palestine was "their land" - that represents less then a tenth of Palestinian "refugees" views and moreover has absolutely zero possibility of ever succeeding. This organisation advises on Facebook those "protesting" to conceal guns and knives beneath their clothes so that when by force of numbers they break the fence down they should run through the countryside, murdering any Israeli they come across. This is why there are dead and injured "protesters" - the more the better, of course, as far as Hamas is concerned. There are some 'facts' to be extracted from this. The Palestinian Arabs might have accepted what Israel offered them when the Staste of Israel was established. The other Arab states, especially what was at first called Transjordan, instead of preferring to keep them dissatisfied in refugee camps for the next half-century, could have settled them within their territory. But neither of these things happened, which gives us the situation we have today. It would be interesting to know what evidence you have for claiming that but I am not holding my breath. Hamas is astutely making use of the situation that exists, certainly. But Trump is an utter fool for adding fuel to the fire of Palestinin discontent - and worse than a fool if he had any awareness of what he was doing. (And I didn't need Channel 4 news to tell me that.)
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Post by jean on May 16, 2018 17:51:18 GMT 1
Don;t break sentences in half and "quote" them. Curiously, this is one of Nick's most annoying habits.
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Post by Progenitor A on May 16, 2018 18:12:47 GMT 1
There are some 'facts' to be extracted from this. The Palestinian Arabs might have accepted what Israel offered them when the State of Israel was established. This is not a fact - the Israelis offered the Arabs nothing, unless you think that taking their land was an 'offer' In fact many of the refugees have settled in Jordan - I was invited to one such home in Amman. Whether those remaining in refugee camps choose to be there I do not know If Trump is a fool, then the Israeli Government is also foolish. Perhaps the most important factor in the Palestinian confrontation is the 70th Anniversary of the 'Great Disaster'
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Post by jean on May 16, 2018 18:28:34 GMT 1
...the Israelis offered the Arabs nothing... Take that up with Nick, would you? I'm just agreeing with what he said. Of course they do! Wouldn't anyone? Obviously.
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Post by Progenitor A on May 16, 2018 19:14:24 GMT 1
No , he was referring to a meeing in 20001 at Taba
It s not as simple as you apparently think. There is a massive diaspora n the Arab world and beyond of Palestinians. In afct those tha remain in refugee camps are probably the minority
Or perhaps neither are fools
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