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Post by Progenitor A on Aug 26, 2018 18:34:03 GMT 1
Corbyn Conspiracy? I am not one for conspiracy theories, but I do think there is something going on with this ani-Semitism campaign. Some stupid Labourites blame it on the Conservatives, purblind to the fact that this old fool is the Conservative's greatest electoral asset So who - cui bono - who would benefit if he goes as a result of this smear campaign (OK some of the smears require answers, others , including the latest 'irony' smear are absurd) Well the most obvious benficiaries of his departure would be the Blairites in the party, so they must be prime suspects in my conspiracy theory. Anyone else? Why, the Zionists of course - if they could bring about his downfall then that would be a prime coup in helping to silence criticism of their policies toward the Palestinians. It would ensure the perniciuous IHRA definition of anti-Semitism (that inhibits criticism of Israel) is accepted by all ambitious politicians The Zionists are clever enough to do this, and you can bet your life they have the full support of Israel So there is my theory an unholy alliance of Blairites (it is reported that the oleaginous Mandleson is courting the not-so-crypto-communist Watson) and Zionists - both have their ambitions that will be helped enormously by Corbyn's removal (Personallyy I do not believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic - he simply never anticipated that he would be in the running for PM and therefore let his 'revolutionary' instinct run wild, consorting with people that no ambitious politician would consider being near
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Post by fascinating on Aug 26, 2018 19:35:52 GMT 1
I suspect that this whole campaign originates from Zionists. My suspicion is that the driving force behind this is from Israel. I found this link, showing that an Israeli attorney is making a freedom-of-information request about anti-Corbyn campaign. mondoweiss.net/2018/08/attorney-determine-campaign/The Conservatives, and of course the Tory press, will be happy that the leader of the Labour party is attacked, as it will help to reduce attention of the failures of the current government.
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Post by alancalverd on Aug 27, 2018 0:04:48 GMT 1
Muslims outnumber Jews about 10: 1 in the UK. At least half of the rest of the population is antisemitic but ashamed to say so in public. The sole objective of any politician is to get elected. General elections are won on marginal seats. Overt Jew-bashing is illegal and ungentlemanly, but pseudointellectual criticism of Israeli policies and actions, and crocodile "sympathy for all martyrs" are socially acceptable vote-winners. No-brainer.
On the one hand, we grow up knowing that nobody likes us, but the galling insult is that we invented the scapegoat!
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Post by aquacultured on Aug 27, 2018 0:32:30 GMT 1
Personallyy I do not believe Corbyn is anti-Semitic - he simply never anticipated that he would be in the running for PM and therefore let his 'revolutionary' instinct run wild, consorting with people that no ambitious politician would consider being near That's what I've always said. He's anti-Zionist, of course, but that's now become an ambiguous term, so he can't win. He needs to say something like: 'That's what I used to say and think. I can't unthink some of it, of course. But I'm older - much older - now, and realise I need to be more responsible. My aim is for the UK - everyone in it - to be safe and as equal as possible.'
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Post by fascinating on Aug 27, 2018 6:30:36 GMT 1
Muslims outnumber Jews about 10: 1 in the UK. At least half of the rest of the population is antisemitic but ashamed to say so in public. The sole objective of any politician is to get elected. General elections are won on marginal seats. Overt Jew-bashing is illegal and ungentlemanly, but pseudointellectual criticism of Israeli policies and actions, and crocodile "sympathy for all martyrs" are socially acceptable vote-winners. No-brainer. On the one hand, we grow up knowing that nobody likes us, but the galling insult is that we invented the scapegoat! Where do you get the information that "at least half of the rest of the population is anti-semitic"? Do you think that criticism of Israel is anti-semitic?
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Post by alancalverd on Aug 27, 2018 9:49:07 GMT 1
Where do you get the information that "at least half of the rest of the population is anti-semitic"? A lifetime's experience as a semite. Topol (remember him?) made an interesting point on a TV documentary many years ago. He said "if you look at a map, Israel [as it was then] is about the size of Yorkshire. If you look at a newspaper, it's bigger than Russia." So here is a tiny democracy with the same healthy mix of socialism and capitalism that pervades all civilised countries, equal rights for women, trial by jury, welcoming to western visitors and businesses, exporter of food and high tech goods, exceptional educational standards, long family, trade and political connections to Europe, and a historic tolerance of debate and dissent. It is surrounded by repressive dictatorships and disgusting theocracies, mostly sworn to wipe Israel from the face of the earth - as they have tried several times in recent history - actively supporting terrorism in the West, or intent on gassing their own populations, as they are doing now. What, other than prejudice, political opportunism, cowardice, or fear of an oil price rise, would make you choose to criticise any aspect of Israeli life that you have not experienced?
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Post by fascinating on Aug 27, 2018 19:19:39 GMT 1
First, it is not really criticising "Israeli life", primarily, we are talking about a conflict that involves territories outside Israel as well. The fact that people are being killed regularly killed (15 Palestinians and 8 Israelis in this month alone) in a conflict lasting now well over half a century is reason enough to be interested. (You might say that there is conflict and death in Syria, for example, but that is a civil war, not directly involving the invasion of other territories. Even so, international intervention has occured there to wipe out the ISIS death cult). There is also the matter of the Palestinians not being allowed a country to live in.
When Russian backed forces invaded Ukraine, and apparently shot down an airliner, there is general condemnation, and no whining that Russia should be free from criticism. The violent expulsion of the Rohingyas is widely condemned, and nobody makes special pleading that Burma must never be criticised.
"A lifetime's experience as a semite." Anecdotal.
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Post by jean on Aug 27, 2018 20:22:16 GMT 1
Do you happen to remember why it is that the ‘occupied territories’ came to be occupied?
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Post by Progenitor A on Aug 27, 2018 21:20:35 GMT 1
Do you happen to remember why it is that the ‘occupied territories’ came to be occupied? Yes
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Post by alancalverd on Aug 27, 2018 23:14:52 GMT 1
The fact that people are being killed regularly killed (15 Palestinians and 8 Israelis in this month alone) in a conflict lasting now well over half a century is reason enough to be interested. Anecdotal.
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Post by fascinating on Aug 28, 2018 7:20:23 GMT 1
The fact that people are being killed regularly killed (15 Palestinians and 8 Israelis in this month alone) in a conflict lasting now well over half a century is reason enough to be interested. Anecdotal. The evidence for your claim that at least 50% are anti-semitic, based on a sample of one person, is anecdotal. Actually I got the figure wrong for the number of deaths, it is only 15, all Palestinians, this month. The evidence, detailing the circumstances of their deaths and the identities,with pictures, of the deceased, is shown here: israelpalestinetimeline.org/2018deaths/
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Post by alancalverd on Aug 28, 2018 16:13:09 GMT 1
Still anecdotal
Not that I find anything amusing (or even particularly interesting) about it at all. Gaza is ruled by a bunch of scum sworn to eradicate Israel. Now and again they persuade some kids (never themselves) to cause trouble at the border or attack people in Israel. What do you expect?
Do let us know if you come across a nice war where nobody gets hurt.
My "sample" is of at least 5,000 British people with whom I have had face-to-face dealings or written corespondence over a lifetime. Given that an efficient sample of N is about N0.5, I think it stands scrutiny as indicative if not conclusive.
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Post by alancalverd on Aug 28, 2018 19:43:58 GMT 1
Let's have another look at that bleeding heart of yours.
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Post by Progenitor A on Aug 28, 2018 19:51:35 GMT 1
Still anecdotal Not that I find anything amusing (or even particularly interesting) about it at all. Gaza is ruled by a bunch of scum sworn to eradicate Israel. Now and again they persuade some kids (never themselves) to cause trouble at the border or attack people in Israel. What do you expect? Do let us know if you come across a nice war where nobody gets hurt. My "sample" is of at least 5,000 British people with whom I have had face-to-face dealings or written corespondence over a lifetime. Given that an efficient sample of N is about N 0.5, I think it stands scrutiny as indicative if not conclusive. of the 5000 people you cite, c2500 were anti-semitic? I would be interested in your calibration of anti-semitic in business and personal dealings At first glance, (assuming you calibration is reliable) I would say that you have been most unfortunate in your dealings Could be you are an irascible chap. But then how did they know you were jewish? Is your board name here an attempt to hide your Jewishnes? Incidentally in my wanderings with my dog I note that just now the English Oak trees are heavy with acorns that look just like 'bar Mitzvah' penisis. I wonder if oak trees are anti-semitic?
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Post by fascinating on Aug 28, 2018 20:30:06 GMT 1
Let's have another look at that bleeding heart of yours. Alan, that's another example of where the actions of a country have been widely questioned, and some have accused of war crimes. Nobody, except the die-hard Saudi government loyalists, says that Saudi Arabia should, as of right, be beyond criticism, else they will be accused of anti-whatever (maybe anti-semitism, because Arabs are semites). Those who do condemn the Saudi actions, such as the disgusting bombing of a school bus, are not subject to schoolboy name-calling like "bleeding hearts". The link I gave you shows a whole collection of anecdotes, scores of them stretching over years, and I don't think anyone doubts the fact that the deaths occured. These are verifiable observations that, together, amount to evidence. So you assert that it is a war. Therefore an interminable war is newsworthy isn't it? It is only natural for people to want to see why this constant killing is going on and be interested in how to stop it. Please tell me what they did to attack the people of Israel, this month.
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