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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 10, 2011 14:52:31 GMT 1
I am interested in the exptent to which stereotypes reflect general differences in thse sub-populations. Are they an indicator of assymetry in the homosexual population? Are male homosexual stereotypes 'gayer'( in the original sense of the word) than female ones? Aren't screaming queens more fun than diesel dykes? ;D
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Post by carnyx on Feb 10, 2011 14:56:24 GMT 1
And, Jean, I can see from your post that you are So Much Fun .... like your stereotype?
And because the whol idea of Stereotyping is so UnPC, it seems that a lot more study is required into the homosexual sub-population.
Is homosexuality entirely coincidental and accidental; a matter of luck as many claim, and so the very idea of a stereotype (Like left handedness, or having brown eyes) is somehow a general abberation? Or is there a correlation in some way between homosexuality and other social attributes?
In other words could sexual proclivity be a co-indicator of various other social attributes, say of poverty/wealth, or disease/health?
And, could it be that stereotypes are in greater use by the various groups within the homosexual sub-population? As, by definition, there ought to be greater inter-homosexual disparities than in the general heterosexual population, then there may be more 'labelling'?
It would be fascinating to hear such labels, as it would point to the fact that homosexuals are nomal humans, and not pious and superior beings from another world.
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 11, 2011 19:29:21 GMT 1
I am always suspicious of attributing some human behaviour to 'genetic causes' because it can act to mask unresolved psychological aberrations yet to be addressed.
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Post by louise on Feb 11, 2011 19:46:43 GMT 1
Ignoring homosexuality for a moment. I can see where you are coming from in that if a person carries out a really despicable act, one would not like to think of that person using the excuse of I was born that way - 'my genes made me do it' (for what it's worth, a similar argument is 'the devil made me do it') because that implies that we have no free will or self control. However, all of our behaviour is shaped by our genes. It is also shaped by our experiences such as learning what our society believes is acceptable and what is not (e.g. kicking kittens). Societies place boundaries on individual's behaviour for the good of that society - currently our society believes that harming animals for pleasure (e.g. bull baiting) damages our society because it desensitises us to another living creature's suffering and we think that is a potentially harmful situation for the rest of us (in the past when wars and battles were almost exclusively hand to hand then it was a good thing to be desensitised to others' pain). In the past, many in our society believed that homosexuality was damaging to society for many reasons, e.g. because it undermined the family unit or it raised uncertainty of man and women's positions in society (when these were much more rigid). However, societies' beliefs clearly can and do change over time. We no longer think it is acceptable for a woman to be forbidden from owning property (for their own good of course). You may not be comfortable with the idea that our behaviour has a genetic element but the truth is that it does. The other part of that truth is that it is not the only element the effects our behaviour. There are other physiological, psychological and societal elements too. That's what makes people so interesting
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Post by abacus9900 on Feb 11, 2011 20:00:48 GMT 1
I do think that the openness of homosexuality over the last few decades or so may have given rise to more 'experimentation' among especially the young, who have a natural tendency to rebel and try out new experiences, perhaps in the name of fashion and unconventionality. That is not to say that there did not already exist another group of people who may have decided to choose a different sexual orientation for completely different reasons. I suppose, as in most things, we have to acknowledge that not all categories of behaviour are homogeneous
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Post by jean on Feb 11, 2011 20:10:05 GMT 1
Ignoring homosexuality for a moment... They can't, though, can they? That's the trouble. You do have to wonder why this search for causes.
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Post by mercury on Feb 12, 2011 0:59:18 GMT 1
Ignoring homosexuality for a moment... They can't, though, can they? That's the trouble. You do have to wonder why this search for causes.you do yourself a disservice by being on the defensive, simplex. would you have homosexuality a taboo subject not up for discussion? you'll always find some form of ignorance and prejudice and obviously some experience it more so than others for whatever reason. and you'lll always find those who use 'other' as a vehicle for rift. of course it doesn't really matter how gays are created. what is important is that people are treated equally. your 'they' i think only contributes to the 'us' and 'them' divide and widens a sense of 'other'.
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Post by jean on Feb 12, 2011 9:51:40 GMT 1
I'm only too happy to mark a divide between myself and anyone who wants to hint that homosexuality might be a result of unresolved psychological aberrations yet to be addressed, mercury.
And I am not sure how you manage to interpret that as being on the defensive; the divide is not between homosexual and heretosexual people, but between thiose who wish to discuss the topic in the sort of terms we've seen here, and anyone else at all, whatever their sexuality.
Abacus, who started this thread for the purpose of alluding to the aberrant nature of homosexuality, and the two foolish old men who contributed so enthusiastically with their references to screaming queens and diesel dykes have shown themselves for what they are.
Wouldn't you agree?
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Post by jean on Feb 12, 2011 10:05:56 GMT 1
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Post by carnyx on Feb 12, 2011 10:11:22 GMT 1
No
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Post by mercury on Feb 12, 2011 10:22:44 GMT 1
I'm only too happy to mark a divide between myself and anyone who wants to hint that homosexuality might be a result of unresolved psychological aberrations yet to be addressed, mercury. And I am not sure how you manage to interpret that as being on the defensive; the divide is not between homosexual and heretosexual people, but between thiose who wish to discuss the topic in the sort of terms we've seen here, and anyone else at all, whatever their sexuality. Abacus, who started this thread for the purpose of alluding to the aberrant nature of homosexuality, and the two foolish old men who contributed so enthusiastically with their references to screaming queens and diesel dykes have shown themselves for what they are. Wouldn't you agree? you are wrong there because because it wasn't abacus who stated this thread. you should check your facts because it was rsmith who began this thread and he wasn't alluding to anything of what you're suggesting. look: Who cares - whatever gets you up in the morning??? Better to be blatant than latent. and that was the entire post.
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Post by carnyx on Feb 12, 2011 10:23:48 GMT 1
@jeanhartrick#83
I see you are Stereotyping like a good-un!..
..... but it looks like mere name-calling hiding fears; gerontophobia and misandry.
(I did ask earlier if, among the homosexual sub-populations, homosexual stereotypes were in use; but you will not say. Is it because you do not know?.. not even 'scene' or 'non-scene' for instance?)
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Post by eamonnshute on Feb 12, 2011 10:23:59 GMT 1
According to the list of topics, abacus started this thread, but the first message is now by rsmith, so I guess that abacus's first message was deleted. Rsmith's first message looks like a response to an earlier message, not the firtst message of a thread.
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Post by mercury on Feb 12, 2011 10:31:20 GMT 1
and yet by your own definition, 'piling in' doesn't exist.
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Post by jean on Feb 12, 2011 10:32:12 GMT 1
@jeanhartrick#83 I see you are Stereotyping like a good-un!... O no indeed, carnyx! I am not claiming that you are foolish because old, nor yet old because foolish. You and your friend nay just happen to be both. Though whether the touch of homophobia and the smidgeon of misogyny that even the most obtuse may detect in your posts is the resut of either of these undisputed factors, I leave it to others to judge. (Btw what is all this zero sum game nonsense? What do you think you mean by it?)
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