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Post by rsmith7 on Feb 24, 2011 0:01:14 GMT 1
To be honest, I find some of the extremist Christian religions just as scary. Some examples include: - Picketing funerals of American soldiers in the US because they believe that God is punishing Americans for allowing homosexuals to live.
- Enforcing multiple polygamous marriages within small communities such that underage girls are forcibly married off to the 'Church Elders'
- Conducting exorcisms on children who are believed to be witches (that often include very severe beatings)
I think that we all recognise that this is a small, non-typical example of Christianity yet many seem to be unwilling to accept that extreme Islam is as non-typical of main-stream Islam. You're right. Stoning people to death for adultery and hanging homosexuals in public is on the same level as the extremely unusual events within western culture you describe above. Nutter.
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 24, 2011 0:08:00 GMT 1
Incidentally, the course of this thread shows a splendid example of PC tricks when criticisms of the pet ideology are made, in this case multiculturalism and Islam.
Admit Nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations. The counter-accusations should be personal. The more personal and scurrilious the better. Attack motivations. Attack personalities. Attack, attack, attack. Use the “in crowd” to exclude critics. Sneer.
How some of you do HATE your native culture, though! Multiculturalism rules EXCEPT when its your own...
For such "treason" Islam would declare you an apostate and execute you. That is Sharia. And principled, nota bene, it is nothing like a retirement village of UK expats in Spain!
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Post by rsmith7 on Feb 24, 2011 0:09:58 GMT 1
STA, "where other religious groups and even sub-sects of Islam itself are routinely and legally discriminated against. Don't we do excatkly the same here? Last time I looked, we still ban catholics from being queen..........................."
Your sense of proportionality is as skewed as your interpersonal skills. Not allowing a catholic to be Queen is hardly in the same league as the genocide inflicted by Muslims on other Muslims. Why are you apologetic about this barbarism and so hostile to a largely benign religion like Christianity? Do you find solace in their medieval existence and lack of aspiration? Is this what the cult of CAGW is hoping to bring about? Are you really all that insane? Or are you just blinded by hatred and envy?
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 24, 2011 0:16:36 GMT 1
Two basic tenets of Islam
What Muhammad did Muslims may do. What Mohammad did not forbid Muslims may not forbid.
Muhammad was a warlord who waged war on other religions and ethnicities. He was a slave trader, a polygamist and a pederast - he married Aisha when she was nine.
This static religio-cultural mindset ensures Islam remains in the pre-Enlightenment desert stone age. If you think this mindset is compatible with liberal western democracy or will be in any sense "softened" by it think again.
The intention is to outbreed the host nations and make them Islamic. It won't take long. A few generations only at the current differential birth rate exacerbated by importation of spouses for each marriage cohort.
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Post by jean on Feb 24, 2011 1:17:12 GMT 1
And still didn't expain WHY I had to be labelled as 'the gay community'................ Being deliberately provocative in small ways unrelated to the topic, otherwise known as needling, is something the marchesa is mercifully free from.
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 24, 2011 1:53:02 GMT 1
Why identify the "gay community"? Because you make a great thing about identifying yourselves.
Minorities rule, OK?
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 24, 2011 5:14:49 GMT 1
Showing her true colours now! Just stating that you EXIST seems to constitute some sort of threat, as far as M is concerned.
And not needling -- I thought it was a legitimate question, that M seemed to have forgotten to answer -- especially since others have pointed out to me that she might not have meant me at all. As such, asking for an answer would have allowed M to correct this. Instead, seems she certainly did mean ME, and for nothing other than stating I exist....................
Seems that I (as well as people of other religions) isn't entitled to the benefits of a democratic society that M is supposedly so worried about.
Might I just add, I'm not saying that islam (or any other religion) isn't a crock of shit, but seemingly unlike M, I'm prepared to stand by a few principles that I consider important, such as allowing freedom of belief, and not taking against a whole section of society just because of what you THINK they believe in, or what their supposed aims are if they choose to have more than 2.4 kids................
Someone can believe that they're the great god Zarquon for all I care, as long as they treat people decently, and don't frighten the horses. I will call them a loony, if they insist on proclaiming to me that they are Zarquon, but freedom of belief means nothing unless we support the right of people to believe whatever nonsense they wish! How they act based on that belief is another matter, but belief itself, however ludicrous, should surely attract at worst criticism not the sort of downright hostility M seems to project onto a whole group (not that they are one uniform group) based purely on what she THINKS they are planning.
Which is not the same as saying that I think how SOME muslims (and christians) treat women and gays is right. As I said, belief and how you choose to act based on that belief are two different matters. So, you can believe, if you like, that women should be kept in the home, and not be allowed to talk to any strange male over the age of 6 months - that's your business. But if you threaten or emprison the female members of your family in this country based on that belief, then I'll support bringing the full power of the authorities on you -- but for what you DO, not what you believe. An important distinction, that effects us ALL if we let it get blurred.
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 24, 2011 8:09:45 GMT 1
To be honest, I find some of the extremist Christian religions just as scary. Some examples include: - Picketing funerals of American soldiers in the US because they believe that God is punishing Americans for allowing homosexuals to live.
- Enforcing multiple polygamous marriages within small communities such that underage girls are forcibly married off to the 'Church Elders'
- Conducting exorcisms on children who are believed to be witches (that often include very severe beatings)
I think that we all recognise that this is a small, non-typical example of Christianity yet many seem to be unwilling to accept that extreme Islam is as non-typical of main-stream Islam. Can you think of just one 'Islamic' nation that gives equal treatment of religions other than Islam? I doubt it very much Intolerance is part and parcel of Islam to a greater or lesser degeree Pretending that Islamic extremism is the preserve of a very small monority is false Just how on earth do you consider that the Islamic terorists in this country survive and prosper without the tacit support of a large part of the Moslem 'community' You can see their separateness, their 'culture' in any town in Britain We are mad to allow them to continue coming here A large minority hate our liberalism our freedoms
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 24, 2011 8:29:23 GMT 1
Except it's NOT oine single culture, just as there are many different sects within islam (who hate each other just as much as you seem to hate islam!). Just who is claiming that it is one culture? The culture that concerns sensible people of all religions is the culture of intolerance and hatred of liberal traditions that is so prominent a part of a large minority of Moslems in this country and around teh world- the culture that leaves eviscerated bodies hanging in shreds from the top floors of buses in London streets. The culture that beats to death Moslem daughters in this country because they embrace the 'kaffir' culture And just as we would see equally large gaps between, say, russian orthodox christians, the nut-jobs behind 'godhatesfags', and the sterotypical wishy-washy CofE clergyman (or even bishop), so they see large gaps between diferent islamic sects, and different cultures which happen to both be mainly muslim. Typical PC absurdity. Because there are some mildly extremist Christian cultures, that excuses the totally extremist Moslem hatred-mongers and killers in our midst Of course, all you're doing is exactly what they want -- trying to convince people that our problem is not people but muslims -- that we hate all muslims, whatever we say in public. Hence the only thing ANY muslim can do in the face of that is support other muslims, and target us because we're not. More illogical reasoning. If the majority of Moslems in this country paraded to protest (as they parade to protest against slights against Mohammed)against the abhorrences that are perpetrated in the name of their religion then we could form a united front against the minority of Moslems that hate our way of life They do not do that That is effectively in many people's opinion, giving tacit support to the extremist minority You take the cultural richness of various countries across the globe which happen to have a majority muslim population, and dismiss them all as [snip]? What a sad outlook you have! The Moslem culture had its days of glory, but now is decadent and inward-looking. Just why do you think there is so much Moslem emigration to Europe and the USA? Emigration patterns are a sure indicator of the relative worth of cultures Don't we do excatkly the same here? Last time I looked, we still ban catholics from being queen........................... The usual asinine illogical reasoning from this poster who invariably, shows her stupidity in various little ways
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 24, 2011 9:13:30 GMT 1
Whether Louise finds some US Christian denominations scary, whether the Queen cannot be RC, whether RCs and Prots have killed eachother in Ireland, whether STA and jean are gay are all totally irrelevant red herrings to this thread because we are talking about immigration into the UK, not various kinds of sectrarianism worldwide. You have tried desperately to change the subject because the actual facts of the case are incontrovertible and far more scary than poor Louise is able to comprehend. But then Louise has trouble interpreting a table of years in temperature order, doesn't she? We have had and continue to have a great deal of immigration from muslim countries which has changed the face of MANY British cities. Ghettoes have been created where muslim immigrants pursue their alien cultural values to the detriment of the cohesion and liberal values we thought we enjoyed. Full stop. Forget the Queen, forget, the US's (illegal) so called Christian polygamists and child abusers and consider the UK's immigrant muslims with their repression of women, their forced marriages, their honour killings, their extreme endogamy, their absolute Sharia prohibition on muslim women marrying out, their ever growing abuse of citizenship scams and their ever more insistent pressure to replace UK domestic law with their own variety - Sharia. Open your eyes, you sad multicultural bigots and apologists for Islam. Let Islam stay where it belongs. It certainly does not belong in the Enlightened West. It has NOTHING to offer us except a warning that the price of freedom is eternal vigilence. Democratic values need protection - they are a fragile flower easily crushed beneath the demographic and cultural juggernaut of Islam. Long live Maryam Namzie's Council of Ex-Muslims and the "One Law for All" Campaign! The only good muslim is an ex-muslim. All the rest carry the seeds of bloody extremism and sectarianism whether they are aware of it or not. See here thesequal.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=264&page=1and here www.ex-muslim.org.uk/eng/events/text1.htmand here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Council_of_Ex-Muslims
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Post by Progenitor A on Feb 24, 2011 10:39:13 GMT 1
Hear. hear!
(bump)
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 24, 2011 13:52:40 GMT 1
Seems the price of freedom according to you, is policing what people believe (or what you think they believe), rather than what they do.
There's a name for that, but it isn't freedom...............
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 24, 2011 15:13:38 GMT 1
I have no intention or desire to police what people believe. But neither am I going to bend over backwards to welcome the purveyors of an ideology and a culture to my country that contradict the basic trend of OUR culture and freedoms.
I said "OUR" but whether you and I actually "share" a culture, I doubt, STA. However you certainly enjoy the freedoms it bestows, as I do. You wouldn't catch me choosing to live anywhere but in the West. I dare say you won't be emigrating to Pakistan or other muslim nations, any time soon either FOR OBVIOUS REASONS - you are a woman and a homosexual..
But be warned, STA - Pakistan IS coming to a ghetto near you soon. It has already arrived in Beeston, Leeds 11 (where the bombers come from, remember?)
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Post by speakertoanimals on Feb 25, 2011 1:08:21 GMT 1
Except I think we do, you just think you can't share a culture with someone you disagree with -- which shows you have kind of missed the entire point of democracy, freedom of thought and belief etc etc.
Nuff said, the thoughful versus the kneejerk...............
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Post by marchesarosa on Feb 25, 2011 15:24:49 GMT 1
People can THINK whatever nonsense they like, STA. It's what they DO and what they preach that bothers me. Democracy has no obligation to facilitate the behaviour that will result in the downfall of its values.
You would soon learn the difference between Freedom and Submission, STA of you were exposed to the undiluted force of Islam. Close you eyes to it if it makes you feel good.
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